Williams College is pretty good school (for IB and for academics), and throw in Amherst College too. Since you only started extracurriculars in grade 12, I think Ivies are a high reach so I’d be looking at tier 2 schools that could still get you into IB. Check out University of Michigan’s Ross Business school, Georgetown McDonough and University of Virginia- they’re pretty good for IB recruiting and they’re easier to get into than the Ivies 
Also, if all your extracurriculars are science oriented, you better have a good reason in your essays to justify why you’re applying as an Econ/Finance major (assuming that’s what you’re thinking)
Amherst and Williams are 'Little Ivies ’ (as selective as the Ivies but smaller in size.) they’re an automatic reach for everyone.
So, are you expecting to work in the US? Or, in your country? If it is in your country, then it should not be a problem.
Immigration and work rules are very strict for US employers.
Employers in the US have to be willing to sponsor a non-citizen and indicate that there are no qualified US citizens to fill the available spot. That doesn’t happen too often with Finance and Econ majors as there are plenty of US citizens with these majors.
That was one of my main doubts - whether I could work in the US after college there. Would it really be that hard? I think I read somewhere else that as long as you were a good fit (3.7+ GPA, internships, interviews well, etc…), finance firms would be willing to hire you, sponsoring a working visa. Maybe I read it wrong though.
If you attend a US university, you have to assume that you will be returning to your country after graduation. Internship options, if any, for your OPT-optional practical training are limited by a timeline because of your visa status. Most OPT is granted for STEM majors. Econ and Finance is a popular major and there is no shortage of US students who want to go into investment banking.
Aren’t Williams and Amherst a little easier to get into than the Ivies? With an average SAT of 1490 and around 15% acceptance rate they seem so, and that’s why I was considering them.
Was also checking out U Michigan and Georgetown. Also heard good things about UVA over at Wall Street Oasis. Would you say this three could be considered match schools?
About the ECs: I took on this science project because I wanted to get experience in public speaking and managing/leading a group, which I did throughout the development of the project and subsequent presentations. There aren’t that many Econ ECs where I live. I’ve tried finding them. Do you think this is good enough an explanation?
In terms of business related ECs, I have:
- a win on a regional high school entrepreneurship competition, sponsored by a major national company. Basically, teams from different schools spent a week working there, developing business ideas later to be presented to a jury, which included the CEO and the vice president of our city. I led the winning team, and developed a likeness for this kind of role.;
- Toastmasters (although I just started in July, as I had to be 18 to become a member, and so I don’t know how if this is valid).
I was also thinking of applying for some volunteering abroad program, spanning from 2 weeks to a month, in November/December. I will only be able to do so, however, if my SAT goes well on first try.
Some time after writing the original post, I also won 1st national prize in an international science meeting held in Lisbon, and was considering organizing the next edition, in July next year, in my home town.
Damn… that kind of screws up my plans. Maybe I’ll apply to the UK then.
Anything with a 30% admission rate or less is a high reach for any international who needs aid. Note that 30% acceptance rate means a reach for Americans too.
Look at the “Results Threads” for Amherst, Colgate, Middlebury, Williams, Hamilton to have an idea.
OPT is 30 months if you graduate in a field that’s in high-demand (typically, CS, engineering, Math/statistics - look it up), and 12 months if you’re not.
OPT is very easy to get as a student recruitable by consulting firms etc, but getting an H1B is very difficult, not because the firm doesn’t want to or because of qualifications, but because some offshoring companies have found a legal loophole and “get”/buy a lot of visas at once (whereas they were meant for individual interns at a firm), and give them to offshored workers who never studied in the US (thus abusing the system). There’s a cap, a fixed number of visas. When the offshoring companies “buy” thousands of them at once, there are no longer any visas left for the students they were meant for, ie., students who attended US colleges, performed well academically and professionally, and are interning in a company that wants to keep them. Those are the people and the companies that were supposed to use the H1B and they no longer have access to them. They’re stuck. As a result, firms have given up trying to get one of the few H1Bs that are left after the offshoring companies 'razzia, internationals who could have contributed to the US economy go back home, Asia, or Canada where their education serves other economic interests than ours, and American workers, instead of benefitting from the program, are actually hurt by it. It’s a terrible situation and attempts to fix it aren’t going anywhere. As of now, the loophole has not been closed, so in the past 10 years legitimate requests have been denied to benefit the “illegitimate” ones. So, working on Wall Street may happen if the problem is fixed within 5 years. It’s up to you to see and take the gamble.
“Anything with a 30% admission rate or less is a high reach for any international who needs aid.”
What if it’s a need-blind school we are talking about? How could being international or needing aid factor in the admission process then? 30% or less being high reach seems a bit exaggerated as well, to be honest.
Thanks for the detailed info regarding OPT. I’ll have to better look into this.
I’m from Portugal too and we are in a relatively similar situation, the difference is that i’m going to be in 12th grade next year but i’m also planning to take a gap year and then apply to US universities. My 10th grade wasn’t good but i think that, with 12th grade, i can improve my average grades a lot.
I don’t know how you’re converting your grades into GPA but i was adviced not to; a 17 in US looks very average but in Portugal we’re talking about the best students as you know. Just for curiosity, what is your average grade (0-20)? And how did you try to convert your grades? The universities in US are aware of Portugal grades system and they will not try to convert Portuguese grades into US grades.
About SAT/Other tests, you should think about doing the ACT (since you study science) and look for a good result, because your SAT score is weak for top schools.
ECs: We both know that opportunities in Portugal for ECs are low. It doesn’t really matter if you only have good science ECs; for colleges it’s not expected that you already know what do you want to do in life (in terms of carreer), they’re only looking for comitment and effort in what you did and if what it you did it’s somehow special and difficult to accomplish.
The main point of ECs is that gives you an opportunity to stand out from the rest of the applicants. When are you planning to apply (january 2017, january 2018)? Could you describe better what you’ve accomplished so far in terms of ECs? As i’ve seen you’re ECs are essencially competitions, right? Perhaps you could tell how many participants were in the competitions you participated, how difficult is to win prizes, how much importance is given to those competitions nationally and internationally, etc etc.
Need blind only means they don’t know how much financial aid you need. However they DO know you’re international and need aid, and thus will be competing in a very small pool by design. They may admit only one such student from your country, for instance.
I know it’s hard to believe but 30% is “reach” for Americans - and, due to the harder selection for internationals who need aid, any such college should, indeed, be treated as a high reach.
Even at the few schools that are need-blind for internationals, your problem is that there are many well-qualified applicants vying for few international seats; your chance of being one of those picked is low, even if your chance is as good as that of any international applicant. Some of you ARE picked!
Glad to meet another portuguese in a similar situation. I finished high school this June with 18,5/20 and was planning to apply for 2017 entry. 17s in Physics/Chemistry, Biology/Geology and Philosophy unfortunately lower my overall score (19s and 20s on other disciplines), and I’m unsure admission officers will be able to look over this, even though my exams show better aptitude at these subjects than the school grades suggest. I also got a 20 in the English exam, which I didn’t mention initially, but that probably doesn’t amount to much.
The entrepreneurial competition first mentioned was restricted to schools from the north. Schools selected five participants each to constitute a team. After an initial screening test, 5 out of 15 teams were selected to participate in the main challenge, with our team coming out victorious. Throughout one week spent at the company’s offices, we had to develop a business idea and marketing plan, and then craft and deliver an elevator pitch to the jury. I managed to stood out and the CEO complimented me personally.
I then started development of a science project in conjunction with the faculty of engineering. Our assigned teacher from the university couldn’t care less, so a large part (90%) of the heavy research and work (reading thesis and research papers, talking to enterprises and coordinating the efforts of other students in the group) was done by me. With four months of work, we applied to the national science fair - 100 selected projects out 160. There the project was awarded the equivalent of a sixth place. Unfortunately we missed invitations for international competitions (for example, third place was Intel ISEF).
This summer I participated in an international science meeting held in Lisbon with the same work (improved). I was contending with around ten other national projects (although these were of higher quality than the previous competition) and won the first prize in the national category, which included an invitation to a reputable international science fair to be held in Brazil (March 2017).
In regards to the SAT vs. ACT, I’ve looked over both. The ACT has less available dates, so I have fewer opportunities to improve my score there. Took 3 SAT practice tests so far (without previous study) and scored around 1480 in all of them. With some preparation I think I can reach 1530.
With that being said, the ACT would allow me to skip subject tests. I’m going to try some practice tests to see if I find it easier.
I think that you’ve tried to convert your grades following this link indications: http://www.dges.mctes.pt/NR/rdonlyres/FF9F39F5-9228-444E-A652-15C446FC929E/3517/7DespachoEUA.pdf; am i right? Well i’ve talked with Fullbright Comission operating in Portugal and i was told that the only use for that table is for students from the US that want to study in Portugal. Each university have their own methods and they’re aware of our grades system; that average grade puts you in the level for Ivy Schools and other top universities in US, no doubt. The problem is that, unlike Portugal universities, admissions for top schools in US require much more than just grades; those grades only set you apart from students that don’t have competitive GPAs and that are almost automatically excluded.
I think that your science ECs are good. 6th place in the national science fair where 100 projects were selected is something that looks good on your application, i guess; the fact that you’ve improved your work and that you were invited to that international science fair in Brasil shows dedication and effort (unfortunately it’s only in March 2017 but the fact that you were invited must count for something right?). If you could add at least one more EC that makes you stand out that would be great (i believe you still have the time to do it).
About the standardized tests (ACT or SAT), you should aim for a high score; don’t neglet the importance that these tests have, especially for international students. Hopefully you can get the scores you want. Good luck.
Do you think Fullbright could help me determine the competitiveness of my application and a set of schools to apply to? Do they charge for counselling? I don’t have any experience working with them.
Right now I’m considering these schools: Northwestern, Amherst, Williams, Dartmouth, Cornell. Based on international FA, prestige and possibility of getting accepted. UVA and U Michigan don’t offer any significant international FA unfortunately.
I would like to thank you for the advice. Best of luck on accomplishing your objectives! If you need any help I would be happy to provide it; since we’re both from the same country I might be able to help in some way.
Maybe they can. I went directly to the location of the institute and it was possible for me to sit down with a counselor and he clarified my questions. They don’t charge anything; you can call them, email them or go directly to their location, either way they will help you for sure.
I think that, based on your grades, ECs and predict test scores, you have a realistic chance of getting in those schools. If you still can add one a good EC that makes you stand out until January that would increase your chances.
Thank you, same goes for you.