Chances From a State U

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>I've just entered my last year of college and am finalizing my law school applications. My biggest concern about admissions is that I'm currently enrolled at a large public state school. We're respectable in the rankings, but not as much as, say, U Mich or Berkley. My main incentive to go public was massive scholarship money (National Merit Scholar), but I was accepted to a few private schools in the East. Some people have said that where you do undergrad doesn't matter, but it seems that schools like Yale draw a LOT from the Ivy League and schools like Northwestern and University of Chicago. Does coming from a large, above-average-but-not-prestigious state institution hurt me at all at the elite schools? I met with my law advisor last week, and he said that while I had good numbers, I might be passed over for someone at a more elite undergraduate institution.</p>

<p>I'm in the school's honors program (about 1,200 students out of 30,000) and have a GPA of 3.92. I've taken roughly 18 credit hours each semester, and studied government with an international relations focus in Great Britain all of sophomore year. I'm a double major in print journalism and government, and spent freshman summer interning for a newspaper (the largest in our state) and junior summer interning for one of our senators in Washington. I'm near-fluent in German. Activity-wise (I know this isn't a main deal, but I thought I'd put it in), I'm an editor on our university paper, secretary of a student government committee and a research assistant for one of the government department professors. I'll graduate Pi Sigma Alpha in the honors program, Phi Beta Kappa in government (honors thesis is in development and centered on British national security policy) and Kappa Tau Alpha in journalism. I was recently notified that I'm one of the school's candidates for the Truman and Marshall scholarships, and I scored a 175 on the June LSAT.</p>

<p>That having been said, I'm terrified that when my applications are being reviewed, all they'll see is that I went to a state school, and I'll be rejected so that someone from HYPS or wherever can be admitted. Does undergraduate really matter that much? Should I not even bother applying to Yale or Stanford?</p>

<p>Right now, my top three schools are University of Chicago, Penn and Stanford, but I'm applying to my own university as a safety and have some matches in mind. </p>

<p>Thanks for your input. I'm polishing essays and getting everything organized now, and I'm sweating bullets.</p>

2

<p>It is a little weird that you've just been notified that you're one of your university's nominees for a Truman. Um...you're ineligible. From the Truman Scholars website:</p>

<p>"Students must be college juniors at the time of selection. "</p>

3

<p><em>blushes</em></p>

<p>To revise...I was one of my school's Truman applicants last year. I'm a Marshall applicant this year. I'm sorry, I was in a hurry typing.</p>

4

<p>Um...jonri...you should have just came out and said it!</p>

<p>"he said that while I had good numbers, I might be passed over for someone at a more elite undergraduate institution" - man! talk about ineptness. :)</p>

5

<p>Your GPA is 3.92, your LSAT 175.</p>

<p>Chicago, UPenn, Stanford
3.6:170, 3.7:169, 3.9:169
16% 15% 8%</p>

<p>Those are the average GPAs and LSAT scores of acceptees from each of those law schools (as given by the Princeton Review sheet i have to my left). Also, the percentage of applicants accepted is also listed. Your numbers are solid and put in you in good running for each of these schools. In addition, a very strong personal statement and strong letters of rec could put you over from the maybe pile to the accepted pile. Does your school have a website indicating how many people applied to and were accepted to various law schools? This can be an indication of your chances. You might also want to consider some of the great law schools at public schools, such as UVa, UMich, Boalt at Berkeley, Hastings in San Fran, or UCLA (the name is slipping my mind), or other comporable private schools (Columbia, NYU, Georgetown, Cornell). Some of these are ever so slightly easier to get into than the ones you mentioned, and may be good backups if you don't get into UPenn, Stanford, or Chicago. Or you may have ruled these out for various reasons already, they are merely suggestions of places to look. </p>

<p>Does where you got your BA matter? This question comes up very often, and the answer is "kinda." How much? Who knows. Might you get passed over because of your state school? Possibly, but how could we tell that THAT was why you were passed over? It is also pretty unlikely, seeing how well you did with your grades and LSAT score. Even someone from UCR is at Harvard Law, which is a "good," but not "prestigious" public school.</p>

<p>If you're passed over, and only go to a top 20 and not a top 10 law school, so what? It looks like you're going to be at the top of the class again, that you're going to go into the lawyering world and take on the 60 hour week and get paid rediculous amounts of money, or go be a PD or DA and do quite well. You have the work ethic and ability as demonstrated by your GPA and LSAT score, and you have other abilities and skills, too, as shown by your scholarship recs.</p>

<p>By the way, Yale's numbers are 171 average LSAT, 3.9 average GPA, and 7% accepted last year. Your GPA and LSAT, the most important parts of the law school application, are quite solid, and the application fees to all of these great law schools are probably worth the possible admission.</p>

<p>Edit: One more thing. Many law students do not go straight to law school. IN fact, many take a few years to work or do something else to help prepare them for law and or life in general. Just something to think about . . .</p>

6

<p>While Harvard or Yale Law might draw more students from top-notch undergrads, generally speaking, there are more stellar students at those schools (and a higher percentage who are going on to top private grad schools) than there are at state universities.</p>

<p>Not an admissions officer, but, just me - if you're at the top of your State U class, and your State U is something more respectable than a glorified community college, then you should be in great shape. Any admissions officer worth his salt understands that there are huge financial incentives for top students to save $150,000 and go public - and that money can be used towards grad school. </p>

<p>For what it's worth, with the increased emphasis on rankings, going State might help you - because your GPA is high, which helps out with rankings. Then again, some schools might really like the smaller classes and "student component" of elite institutions - the fact that a student gains the most from interacting with uber-talented students. Smart money is that both of those will be factors in your admissions, and differnet schools will weigh them differently. Others are always free to throw in their (very different) opinions!</p>

<p>Finally - apply to a safety. 3.92 and 175 - you'll get some fee waivers from schools. Shell out the $10 to LSDAS to apply, and know that you'll have an acceptance by mid-December. You might even get merit money, and that will make any waiting (or rejections) much easier to handle.</p>

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<p>aa - Don't you mean save $70,000-$80,000 (assuming no merit aid? and the not-glorified cc?)</p>

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<p>No, I don't mean $70,000.</p>

<p>I said "top students." IMO, it's silly to assume that a top student would not get merit at a mediocre state school. I could have gone to my state U for free. Many state Us are very inexpensive - one of my friends went to one that was less than $10k/year, which included tuition, room, and board. So I really meant $150,000 - don't forget, the sticker prices at top private schools exceeds $40,000/year.</p>

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<p>I have to gasp every time I hear numbers like that, ariesathena! It kind of makes me glad that we didn't break the bank on undergrad. Are there any scholarships available to students in professional schools, or is it pretty much a standard non-negotiable bill?</p>

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<p>Really depends on the school and the student. You can assume that law school or med school is pretty much non-negotiable - that assumption is a good place to start. </p>

<p>Some schools do give merit aid, but it depends on the student. I do know someone who was offered merit at Chicago; PSedrish's D was offered a full ride at UMich. Now, if that isn't an option, here's the game plan: go to a really good State school (like UVA or Mich or whatever) and buy a house in-state before the start of first year. Even for states which require more than change of residency (driver's license, voter registration, car), that will probably be enough to establish domicile (intent to stay). First year is at full-price, but subsequent years are at a reduced, in-state price, and your son will have a place to live. Sometimes, a mortgage can be cheaper than rent. Just a thought. :)</p>

<p>...oh yeah, I have a mini-stroke every time I think of how far in debt I am. Then I think that I could be making an average of $54,200/year as a starting engineer. Then I realize that this is better. ;)</p>

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<p>Yeah, engineers don't get paid nearly enough based on the education level needed, the constant educational upkeep on new technology and the responsibility they have. I know it's been a topic of several threads, but I still wonder WHY?!</p>

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<p>Oh wow, I always thought engineers were paid much more than that? They should be, my roommate is just a sophomore right now and an engineering major, and the amount of work she has to do is ridiculous.</p>

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<p>that's the starting amount for engineers, and compared to all the other fields, it is one of the highest already. engineers can make a lot as they progress (perhaps into management roles)...</p>