Durham’s requirements for Americans:
https://www.dur.ac.uk/international/country.information/
Warwick’s for Americans:
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/study/international/admissions/entry-requirements/#u
Considering that AP scores are what matter most, Warwick’s doesn’t seem “far further down”.
You still have to list KCL entry requirements and then St Andrews entry requirements before arriving at the Warwick.
“but no UK school is as competitive as HYP”
This is not true and a bit misleading. This is comparing apples to oranges. The reasons that Oxbridge acceptance rates are higher than HYPSM, etc, is that the high school counselors here do not allow certain kids to apply to Oxbridge or do not let students from the same school both apply for the same course at the same Oxbridge college. Also, as you apply for a specific course, certain courses at top Unis (eg, Medicine or PPE) are likely to be as competitive as specific Ivy League unis and other top schools.
Will you qualify for financial aid in the US or will you’re parents be paying $60K per year in the US or ~20K per year in Britain? What do your parents think about studying overseas?
Closer to $45K / year in the UK…
Here are KCL’s requirements for American applicants:
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/study/international/offices/north-america/usa/undergraduate.aspx
St. Andrews’:
https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/study/entrance-requirements/usa/
Warwick’s doesn’t seem “far further down” compared to KCL’s or St. Andrews’ either.
It is after KCL and St Andrews and far further down from Oxbridge, is it not?
@LutherVan, all 4 of Durham, Warwick, St. A’s, and KCL are far further down from LSE and the Oxbridge gauntlet in terms of difficulty of admittance (for Americans), but a reasonable person would have read you to have meant to say that Warwick was far further down from Durham (considering that you mentioned Warwick right after Durham), and that isn’t really true.
You are making exactly my point for me with your first lines. Durham and Warwick are not that hard to get in for US students to be grouping them as some “reach” universities with Oxbridge and LSE.
That was the point I was making.
I am just trying to prevent the typical misinformation one sees on TSR being repeated here, where people are misinformed that Durham and Warwick are some “ridiculously prestigious universities”, when they are not. Neither are they that great at attracting US students.
Durham asks for relatively high AP/SAT II grades but I doubt they attract much take-up of these. Both are good universities though, just not to be over-rated.
@LutherVan, prestige is in the eye of the beholder and in any case, both Warwick and Durham are highly regarded in some fields while Warwick is a top City target school (along with Oxbridge, LSE, and UCL). In the US, there is a big gap in perception of Oxbridge/LSE (and maybe Imperial) and the rest (because almost no one in the States knows about the rest besides St. A’s and maybe Edinburgh), but in England, people just don’t see a big gap between LSE, UCL, and Durham/Warwick/KCL/St. Andrews/Edinburgh. The English would put TCD on that tier as well. Because the US has so many Irish-Americans, TCD may be better known than all UK unis besides Oxbridge/LSE in the US; level with St. A’s or even above it.
@PurpleTitan, even Aberystwyth is highly regarded in some fields. Please stop repeating that line. I have told you that the UK is different from the US in regards to prestige and perception. It is not typically dichotomised into ug vs pg or by fields. In the UK, the general approach is overall prestige/perception. Because X is better than Oxford in Engineering would not mean people would choose it over Oxford.
I have also told you repeatedly that your advocated perception that people only know Oxbridge and LSE is not true:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19637190/#Comment_19637190
People in the States do know a few universities beyond Oxbridge and LSE.
In regards to gaps between LSE/UCL and the others, it depends on who you ask.
If you go to TSR and listen to juvenile views, don’t be surprised if they naively tell you it is Oxbridge followed by Durham and Warwick. I see it all the time.
In academia, government and corporate world it would be a different view. In corporate, for example:
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/news/best-uk-universities-chosen-major-employers
Let us not derail the thread.
Maynooth is a nice college, not far from Dublin. Trinity and ucd would be first choices but Maynooth would be a nice safety. Cao is separate from ucas and allows you to apply to up to 10 programs.
Enough bickering between @PurpleTitan and @LutherVan. We don’t allow endless debates like that. You have made your points and people can judge them for themselves.
BTW, what plans do you have after graduation? While I believe that TCD/Edinburgh/St. A’s/KCL enjoy the same status in the UK as Reed/UMich/NYU/Vassar/UW-Madison do here (at or around them, more or less), for an American who plans on being in the US afterwards, going to the American schools makes more sense, all else (like finances) being equal. Granted, as you aren’t guaranteed to any of your American matches or reaches, applying abroad still makes sense.
I mean, I kind of feel like throwing caution to wind in regards to the grad school question (which I intend to attend). I may want to stay in the UK, I may want to return to the US, but I’d imagine ultimately a prestigious if not top-tier college in either country will ultimately mean the same thing. Maybe I’m wrong about this, so please inform me if I am.
Could you guys also inform me what you believe to be the best locations with highly rated schools in them in the UK (besides London and Edinburgh obv) to fill my two extra spots on my list of 5?
And lastly, could I get opinions on Queen Mary-is the location really that crappy in London, are all the commuters really a nuisance, how well are the academics regarded at least for English, etc.?
Queen Mary’s location is not crappy. It is just unglamorous.
It is not the neighbourhood for the historic buildings and siteseeing many associate with London. I dare say only Queen Mary’s building is of great architectural interest in a 200 metre radius of that area.
The area the university is located at is quite ethnic (heavily filled with people from the Indian sub-continent community). It is not a high crime area but it is not prestigious.
That said, it is not too far from the City & Canary Wharf (the duo-financial centres) and Stratford centre (where the glamorous Westfield Shopping Mall is). The university itself is within 150 metres walk to 2 stations (each located in either direction you take as you leave campus). So if the area is not your scene, you can easily and quickly get out to where you prefer.
Commuters are not a nuisance and the transport links around Queen Mary is actually one of the more abundant in comparison to many other parts of London that are not central.
Queen Mary’s English academics are some of the best and most respected in the UK.
One can even argue, based on performance alone (not prestige), they are currently the next best thing to Oxbridge in the UK:
https://www.researchprofessional.com/media/pdf/UoA29_English_Language_Literature.pdf
So, at worst, they are quite good.
In regards to other schools besides London and Edinburgh, if the universities already named on this thread are not satisfactory, just follow the rule of thumb in the UK that “after the prestigious/top universities 12 or so, the next tier are usually the MAIN universities located in the big regional cities (not already in the 12)”.
So just look at cities like Nottingham, Birmingham, Sheffield etc.
I emphasised “main” because there is a difference between University of Sheffield and Sheffield Hallam University. Same with University of Notthingham and Nottingham Trent University. The former are the ones I am referring to as “main”.
I’m always cautious when I’m told of an area that "reports of muggings and knifings have been greatly exaggerated ". Especially when it’s followed with ’ Just use common sense’. It makes me nervous, but the area where Clark is makes me nervous, as does the area around Temple, and they’re still very good universities.
The reference to architecture is because the area is a heavily immigrant/projects area.
The commuters aren’t a ‘nuisance’ (not sure what you mean by that) but represent almost all students, as few people come from afar to attend - students in the residences tend to be international, which can be cool but will not be very conducive to integration.
All in all, I’d recommend Queen Mary’s Belfast over Queen Mary London.
East Anglia, Bath, York, Bristol.
@StephenDaedalus, grad school in what sense? PhD program? Law school? B-school? Undecided? Academia would be aware of the good UK unis but they would be much less well-known in the American workforce.
There’s also the consideration that it would be easy to switch majors in the US but that would be limited in Scotland (and near impossible in England).
PhD program in psychology or an MA in English probably for grad school.
When I referred to the commuters at Queen Mary as a possible “nuisance”, I just meant is it difficult for those living on campus to make friends when most people return home in the evening. Maybe this isn’t the case. I feel like it will be alienating at times to be in a new country, so the benefit of a tight-knit and self-contained community might be nice within the city, as I understand it to be at Trinity College Dublin.
I’d love to hear what guys have to say about about King’s compared to UCL and Queen Mary in terms of the student body, community, location, academics, etc.
The only reason I plan on applying to KCL instead of UCL is a very prohibitive UCL entry requirement concerning AP classes (taking 5 in the last TWO years of high school) that I have seen at no other British school besides Cambridge.
The main campuses of KCL and UCL are roughly a mile apart and both located in Central London. LSE is just about 100m away from KCL, basically next door.
KCL tries to pride itself as being the most central university in London because of its closeness to a main transport hub to the South (Waterloo) and to Tralfalgar Square, the courts, the City and House of Parliament (Big Ben). These are examples of the historic buildings and siteseeing I was saying you will not get at Queen Mary.
UCL on the other hand is closer to the main transport hubs out of London to the North (Euston and King’s Cross) and closer to posh residences in the Regents Park area and to Oxford Street/Piccadilly Circus for shopping.
Student body-wise, I guess it really depends on individual personality. I have heard more people say KCL student union and atmosphere is friendly and warm than I have heard people say the same about UCL. But take that with a pinch of salt, you might just love UCL.
Academics-wise, they are largely similar even though UCL might have a slightly higher entry tariff in most cases. That said, prestige-wise, UCL is regarded as clearly better than KCL. I see it as the gap LSE has on UCL is similar to what UCL has on KCL.
The student body and academics of Queen Mary would be of lower prestige than UCL and KCL. I have already told you about the location earlier, in regards to community, I doubt QM has the wealth to compete with UCL and KCL in regards to facility it provides or even affluence-background of attendees.