Hey CC, first post on here. I’m an Ivy hopeful (especially looking into UPenn) and I was wondering my chances without AP courses. I go to a small private school that does not offer AP courses at all, but I am in all the highest level classes offered (honors). I am a straight A student and very strong in EC’s and volunteering. I am aiming for a 2250+ SAT and 700+ on two subject tests. Would getting A’s in my highest offered courses be enough to get into Penn (or another Ivy), or should I self-teach and take AP exams solely for admission chances?
It is difficult to chance you without having actual test scores to show. May I ask what grade are you in?
If your school has challenging honors classes, I recommend you self study for the AP and SAT II tests that correspond. For example, there are students at my school who do not want to take the AP biology course so they take the AP test and SAT II test freshman year after honors biology. The classes are similar. I really recommend you take some AP tests for college credit and for admissions.
My kids went to a small private high school with no APs until senior year, and then they could only take two. They send a few seniors to Ivies pretty much every year.
@nodeal while not an Ivy, MIT wrote on this topic: http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/on_aps_1
Here is a quote (from Stanford’s Robin Mamlet, who, at the time, was Dean of Admissions):
“One thing we are trying to do is dispel the myth that a curriculum loaded to the brim with Advanced Placement courses—with no regard to a student’s happiness or personal interests—is a prerequisite for admission to Stanford. Such a course load is not required, nor is it always healthy.
Whenever we talk to students and parents, we encourage them to work with you [guidance counselors] to develop an appropriate course load. Of course we want students to challenge themselves, but we don’t want them to hurt themselves physically or mentally along the way. We try to explain to families that the students who will thrive at Stanford are those who are genuinely excited about learning, not necessarily those who take every single AP or Honors or Accelerated class. We tell students we expect them to take a reasonably challenging load, selecting from among the most demanding courses available to them. And we make it clear that we want students to work with you to exercise good judgment in course selection.”
From what I have read, just take the most rigorous courses your school offers and you’ll be fine for the Ivy League.
@divinggirl6 junior. im currently taking the most rigorous courses my school offers. would a 700+ chem subject test grade make up for me not being able to take AP chem? Also if i take an ap test May of my senior year, will that help for admissions at all?
I would have to second what intparent said, further reference Stanford, and then put in my own reasoning. Your strongest profile will come from what is available to you - that which you will have the chance to show competence and mastery in. If your school does not offer AP courses and you are doing work at the highest level of options, and doing your strongest work there, you are in a great position to present the best student profile you can.
If you are short a class from the usual student courseload next semester and want to fill that with self-study, MOOC’s or class at a community college, that looks like ardor on your part, and you would have then raised your profile.
Sounds, though, like you could use some confidence in believing that you can score in the 700s+, and that is where I would counsel you to start.
There are excellent independent schools who have eliminated the AP craze in favor of offering the breadth and scope of a course to students without compelling teachers to cut short the curious, engaged conversation in the classroom which disrupts or diverts the lesson of the day. Teachers are insistent that students in AP courses get all of the material covered, as they know (largely) which components of the AP course content will show up on the exam.
Such schools have created and diligently maintained excellent school profiles as well as relationships with colleges and universities across the nation. They work to make sure the colleges and universities understand the level at which they teach the courses they offer, and have taken a stance to move forward AP-less confident that their students are well prepared thinkers and learners. Confident their students will be assessed, and received, as such.
A 700 sat subject test is actually a low percentile score:
http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat/SAT_subject_tests_percentile_ranks.pdf
And a 2250 is a tall task. How did you score on the psat?
Colleges will view you in context of your high school. Many high schools don’t offer APs. Some are among the most highly rated hs in the country and they don’t offer APs b/c the feel all their classes are college level. Others don’t offer APs for resource reasons. Colleges also have ratings for high schools and if your high school is rated high and you are doing well, then a lack of APs b/c your hs does not offer them is not an issue for them. Sometimes you hear of kids taking 5 APs in a semester. A lot of times that is a red flag to a college that those APs are not really not rigorous and they would rate a kid with 2 APs at a more selective hs more favorably
ClarinetDad16: “+”
No. Colleges are not impressed by self study. No college has an expectation that students will take an AP exam if their school does not offer the course. Top schools will expect you to take the most rigorous curriculum available within the context of your school.
No, since they will not see it before admissions decisions are made.
No. There are no trade-offs, but as I said earlier, colleges do not expect you to take that which is not available.
@nodeal: Have you read the High School Preparation statement on the UPenn page?
“We review the school report along with any provided school profile to best understand your high school context, including the types of courses available to you, your school’s grading scale, and extracurricular or post-secondary opportunities. Students are only expected to challenge themselves academically within the offerings available to them at their high school. Every school is different.”