Chances...?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
1

<p>Hello everyone. This is my first post to this forum. So far, I have only been a lurker. </p>

<p>Well then, to the chase.</p>

<p>SAT I: M: 780, CR: 750, W: 690 (ouch)
SAT II: Plan to take Physics and Math in June.</p>

<p>AP: CS AB: 5, plan to take Physics C (both parts), Calculus, and Chem in May.<br>
Bio next year.</p>

<p>All the above exams are, and will be, self-studied for (does this count?)</p>

<p>I am in the 11th Grade right now, so i will be a 2008-2009 classer.</p>

<p>My school grades are good, (top 5% or so.) </p>

<p>I have many EC's:
IRIS (indian precursor to ISEF, so i will represent india in ISEF 2007).
school activities
designing the school web site
starting a computer club in school.
helping to organize some school-level activities
I will also be going to the Colombo MUN (Mock UN)</p>

<p>umm...that is all so far. If I left out anything, I will tell you guys. </p>

<p>By the Way, I live in Chennai, Madras, India</p>

<p>I would like to go to either MIT,Stanford, or (most likely) CMU for CS.</p>

2

<p>Well your SAT score is certainly v. good considering you're still in your junior year (11th Grade). I'm really not qualified to estimate your chances, I don't think anyone other than the admissions committee at MIT is; so I'll wish you the best of luck!</p>

3

<p>Your SAT scores looks very good, so don't worry about this one. Seeing that you're from India, however, I must note that international admissions is very, very tough (and even more so for Indians, I guess). I think most admits have won some national/international competition.</p>

<p>Anyway, don't let this turn off. Convey your passion in the essays, and good luck!</p>

4

<p>Nice to see you, ram.
Don't worry about writing score much, you have a great shot.</p>

5

<p>"I must note that international admissions is very, very tough (and even more so for Indians, I guess)"</p>

<p>What about for Chinese?</p>

6

<p>i think its 'very very tough' for asians in general.</p>

<p>I'm just a bit confused. Why exactly is the acceptance rate for internationals so low at mit?</p>

7

<p>Probably because so very many apply, and MIT intentionally caps the size of the international contingent of the incoming class to roughly 100 (~10% of the incoming class). (The quota works out to ~5% of the number of international applicants. Matt wrote about this in a blog</a> entry last summer.)</p>

8

<p>But i'm confused. Dont internationals PROMOTE diversity? Plus most of them come from really really disadvantaged backgrounds. It doesnt make sense that on one hand mit encourages URMs, but on the other caps internationals.</p>

9

<p>It's my understanding that the international quota exists because MIT is need-blind for international students. If MIT were not need-blind for internationals, presumably more could be admitted.</p>

10

<p>but harvard, princeton etc. are need blind for int'ls too.</p>

11

<p>I guess it just works out differently for different schools.</p>

12

<p>There are a wide variety of reasons for this, some good, some bad, some that just are.</p>

<p>One set of reasons is obviously financial. MIT receives quite a bit of money from the US government for a variety of purposes and is definitely an American university. MIT would definitely not want it to be perceived as anything else. </p>

<p>Tied in with that is that MIT always admits need-blind. The role of the admissions office is to pick the 1600 top students of all that applied, without regard to their ability to pay. The role of the Financial Aid office is to ensure that every single student that the admissions office has chosen as "someone we want" can afford to go to MIT. Not that it will necessarily be easy to pay, or that paying the bill won't hurt. But the office will ensure that the admitted students are capable of attending MIT. As an American university, there are a wide variety of governmental and other funding sources that are available to provide financial aid to Americans. These options are largely unavailable to international students, whose aid must come from the Institute general funds.</p>

<p>There are several other reasons as well. The end result is that the MIT administration has placed a quota requirement on the admissions office. The admissions office can admit currently about 5% of international applicants.</p>

<p>That alone would make the international applicant pool highly competitive. To make matters worse, the international pool is often more highly self selective than the domestic pool. In the American applicants is is not uncommon to apply to at least one school that you know is likely to be a bit of a stretch. You apply to Harvard, Princeton, MIT, or some other top school despite your 530 verbal 590 math SAT scores and a high school transcript filled mainly with C's. These are the easy decisions and tend to inflate the difficulty of entry into top American Universities. </p>

<p>By contrast, most international applicants apply to ambitious schools only in their own region. That is they might apply to Oxford or Cambridge or the Indian Institutes of Technology, even if they think it might be a stretch to get in, but they rarely apply to MIT on a whim.</p>

<p>Those international candidates applying from outside North America, tend to only apply if they think they can get in. The process can be very different from what they are used to. They may well have to fly somewhere in order to sit the SATs (for example the only SAT administration in Africa is in Kenya, I believe). It really is non trivial to apply to an American institution for a non-American. As a result, not only is the admissions rate capped, but the international pool tends to be made up of some of the most motivated and impressive candidates overall.</p>

<p>MIT undergraduate admissions remains highly competitive for international students and it will remain so for the foreseeable future.</p>

<p>-Mikalye</p>

<p>PS: Remember that MIT classifies applications by Citizenship, not by residence. If you are a US citizen or a holder of US permanent residence (green card) status then you apply as an American. Otherwise, you are an international student. I'm a European EC, and every year I get several Americans applying to MIT from Europe.</p>

13

<p>yeah i know, i'm american myself, but i have friends who are pakistani and VERY VERY deserving. I just feel its a bit unfair to them if they have to suffer because they werent born in the us.</p>

14

<p>Hey guys. Thanks for all the help and information. I don't think i should be worried about this till about november or so (keep in mind that i am only in the 11th grade) </p>

<p>But now a new worry shoots up. Even though I live in India, where EC's and other opportunities will be less than in U.S., I am an American Citizen. Will they keep in mind that I lived in India, or am I just plain out because of my poor stats (as compared to U.S. students)?</p>

15

<p>Speaking here as an international EC, I see quite a few Americans applying from Europe. The admissions office is very concerned with an applicant's context, which they define as: "the applicant's family situation, high school, and community; what sets him or her apart; why the applicant's accomplishments are impressive; any special circumstances"</p>

<p>Everything is determined by context. That is why I scoff at posts like "Is it true that you need 7APs to get in?" Most of the American students that I interview have no AP exams. AP courses just aren't offered. Everything is interpreted in context. That can matter. </p>

<p>For example, the physics curriculum here is in many ways different than the standard high school physics curriculum in the US. There is far more material covered here on circuits and systems but other topics, like special relativity, are not covered at all. The SAT II Physics test is written to the American curriculum. I have had many applicants who have had to go out on their own (possibly with a friendly Physics teacher) and to learn those topics which might appear on the test which they have never seen. I try to ensure that the Admissions office knows that, as it can be important in evaluating both the scores and the individual's drive. But the students who have been successful applicants to MIT by and large have taken the initiative to prepare themselves for things like the SAT II. Those who try to excuse a 530 on the test with "well our curriculum is different" have generally been unsuccessful.</p>

<p>I can assure you, as I have seen it repeatedly, that what MIT is interested in is how you took advantage of the opportunities available to you, not what those opportunities are. </p>

<p>I have had students accepted Early (even applying from India, American applicants can apply Early Decision) who had very few opportunities, but they took the fullest advantage of those, and in one exceptional case they were able to expand the opportunities available.</p>

<p>Good luck with your application,
-Mikalye</p>

16

<p>There was an American citizen living in India on these boards last year. He is now happily living in Cambridge as a freshman. :) I'm not sure how much he checks the board anymore, but you might try PMing him (zking786).</p>

<p>I mean, I'm sure stuff like that happens all the time. But it's nice to know that we all know of a specific example.</p>

17

<p>hey, i'm an american citizen living in india as well. I got into stanford early this year, with less than stellar ECs but decent SAT scores. i dunno if the process is much different for mit (find out in march ;)) but it is definitely possible to get in. :)</p>

18

<p>Ok guys;
Thanks for all the help. While I don't feel confident (can anybody when it comes to MIT?) I will certainly post another chances thread in about nov, when my app wil be about finished. Until then, have a good time everyone and once again, thanks for all the help.</p>

<p>rama_GB</p>

19

<p>OK rama_GB, but why post a chances thread in Nov. If there is one thing that comes out again and again on this forum it is that overwhelmingly the chances threads are meaningless.</p>

<p>Adequate academics guarantees that your application will be properly evaluated, that's all. It is the rest of the subjective application that gets you in or doesn't. What did your letters of reccomendation say? How well will they respond to your attempts at humour on the essay? Can you demonstrate what you would be adding to life on campus. </p>

<p>All that most chances threads say are "Look at me, I am very smart". At which point the assembled wisdom of the boards tends to be. Very good, everyone at MIT is very smart, but that's not what gets you into the school. By and large what gets you into the school is not what fits easily into a chances thread.</p>

<p>-Mikalye</p>