Chances?

Graduate School Business School - MBA
1

<p>Age: 28
Bilingual/ Minority
Graduated UNC-Chapel Hill 5yrs ago w/ BA in Political Science. (GPA- around 3.05)
GMAT - yet to be taken</p>

<p>Exp.:
Military experience - 4.5yrs
Commissioned as an Officer, U.S. Army (through ROTC program upon graduation).
Served duty stations: S. Korea, Germany, Kuwait, Iraq (Combat exp.)
Honorable Discharge- Captain
Final base salary in military: $89,000</p>

<p>post-military work exp.(current) - will be 1yr
A renowned CM (Construction Management Company) / position: Middle management/ specialty title
Current Base salary in the corporation: $70,000+ Comp. bonus.</p>

<p>Can anyone kindly tell me about my chances in terms of getting into some of the top b-schools? </p>

<p>Desired schools - Oxford (Said) -1yr MBA, HEC (Paris), CBS, Georgetown (McDonough)</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

2

<p>
[quote]
Desired schools - Oxford (Said) -1yr MBA, HEC (Paris), CBS, Georgetown (McDonough)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>CBS will probably be a pretty big stretch -- if you can score 740+ on the GMAT... it'll help somewhat. May have a decent chance at Georgetown provided a solid GMAT. It will really depend on your leadership/professional experience content. Contact the vets clubs at the schools (I know CBS has one) to get some insider tips. Good luck.</p>

3

<p>What's CBS? Chicago?</p>

4

<p>"CBS" is usually Columbia Business School. Chicago normally goes by "Chicago" or "Chicago GSB".</p>

5

<p>could be columbia</p>

6

<p>Yes. The afrementioned CBS is Columbia Business School. I understand it is a tough slot to aim for, however, interestingly enough, most of my fellow officers have been admitted to some of the very best B-schools (Kellogg, Darden, Tuck etc.), given that some had similar undergrad GPA as mine. </p>

<p>A concern I have is that I will be applying a year after my discharge date as opposed to the others who have applied during their military tenure. In my particular case, I just couldn't find time to complete my application while I was still in the service and now, I will be working at least for a year. Therefore I would like to know if having worked in a company for a year (after that leadership exp. in military) will lower my chances at a top B-school.</p>

<p>I would really appreciate an input. Again, Thanks in advance.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
I understand it is a tough slot to aim for, however, interestingly enough, most of my fellow officers have been admitted to some of the very best B-schools (Kellogg, Darden, Tuck etc.), given that some had similar undergrad GPA as mine.

[/quote]

That is true; however, not all GPAs are equal. While UNC is certainly a top public, competing vets will often have "similar undergrad GPAs" in engineering (all service academy grads have engineering core requirements) or quant-heavy degrees such as finance or economics -- all from similarly well regarded institutions, if not better.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Therefore I would like to know if having worked in a company for a year (after that leadership exp. in military) will lower my chances at a top B-school.

[/quote]

Not at all.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
Final base salary in military: $89,000

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I didn't know that the military pays that well !!
Consider that you only have 4 years' experience in the military, your final base pay (if it is true) is much higher than the average engineer who has 4 years of work experience.</p>

<p>I looked it up and found this What's</a> it pay to be an Army of One?</p>

<p>Why the discrepancy ?</p>

9

<p>I have a lot of friends that are Captains in the Army and none of them get paid anything like that.</p>

10

<p>I apologize for the misprint. $89,000 was NOT our base salary, however, was our total compensation. Because we received COLA (Cost of Living Allowance), BAH (Housing allowance: in Europe, it was quite high), Language pay etc., our total compensation was much higher than our base salary (it might actually have exceeded $90,000). Anyways, one thing I would like to mention is that only a select few officers I've seen during my career were from USMA (Westpoint). Most of us were commissioned through various other venues and institutions (ROTC, Citadel, NME/ VFM/ VMI, OCS). Out of approximately 90 junior military officers I have personally acquainted with in my career, about 12 of them were USMA grads, 15 others graduated very renowned undergrad. inst.(Stanford, Princeton, UVA, JHU, W&M, Michigan, Notre Dame) and rest of them graduated from much lesser renowned institutions or military acadmies. Out of the example of top MBA candidates I've mentioned, only one officer graduated USMA and he wasn't an engineering or a hard science major. The other two officers graduated small public schools lesser known than my alma mater and only one of them was a chemistry major (the other officer was a history major and their GMAT scores ranged in between 600-660). I guess there is a significantly lesser emphasis on undergrad record five years removed from graduation in terms of admissions standard (I would only certainly know upon getting my result). Regardless, I truly appreciate your input and wish you all the best of luck in your future. </p>

<p>Thank You.</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Anyways, one thing I would like to mention is that only a select few officers I've seen during my career were from USMA (Westpoint). Most of us were commissioned through various other venues and institutions (ROTC, Citadel, NME/ VFM/ VMI, OCS).

[/quote]

As an OCS (Marine Corps) grad myself, I'm well aware of that fact.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Out of approximately 90 junior military officers I have personally acquainted with in my career, about 12 of them were USMA grads, 15 others graduated very renowned undergrad. inst.(Stanford, Princeton, UVA, JHU, W&M, Michigan, Notre Dame) and rest of them graduated from much lesser renowned institutions or military acadmies. Out of the example of top MBA candidates I've mentioned, only one officer graduated USMA and he wasn't an engineering or a hard science major.

[/quote]

My original point about academy grads is that they must all take an engineering core -- which more often than not will lower their overall GPAs. So even though one can graduate with a history or economics degree, it's still a BS. </p>

<p>
[quote]
The other two officers graduated small public schools lesser known than my alma mater and only one of them was a chemistry major (the other officer was a history major and their GMAT scores ranged in between 600-660). I guess there is a significantly lesser emphasis on undergrad record five years removed from graduation in terms of admissions standard (I would only certainly know upon getting my result).

[/quote]

Well I suppose it remains to be seen where the candidates actually matriculate at. I don't disagree that undergrad GPAs are less important the further removed one is from graduation -- but it (and the type of courses you took) is still taken into account. Off the top of my head, the fellow vets at the b-school (top 5 by virtually any measure) I attended came from the service academies, Stanford, MIT, ND, Northwestern, Cornell, and top publics. One or two elite LACs were also in the mix. A quick run-through of other vet buddies at other schools like HBS/Stanford/Wharton include a similar mix: Service academies, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, Brown, Columbia, ND, and top publics.
I guess my point is that your competition for a spot at a top b-school (primarily CBS, in your case) will be these types of people -- the cream of the crop. You certainly have a chance but you've got to nail the GMAT and the essays. Good luck.</p>

12

<p>Thanks for the helpful info. It is good to get some advice from a fellow veteran such as yourself. I would still elaborate on couple of things as I have previously mentioned though. Two of the officers that already did matriculate at (Darden and Kellogg) were not USMA grads (Like I have mentioned, they were chem/ history majors from small public schools). I don't know if they've taken heavy engineering course load or not but I have fair share of them on my transcript as well (including finite/ discrete math and Calc courses). Nevertheless, I understand that I must nail GMAT and essays (along w/ getting outstanding references). But, then again, don't we all that are opting to get into top b-schools?- My major concern at this stage was just one thing (since I can't do much about undergrad credentials at this point) - whether or not having a corporate exp.(less leadership) as opposed to leadership exp. as an officer for a yr after discharge would hinder my chance at a top b-school. And the question has been answered in your previous post. I guess I'd just have to focus on GMAT practice tests and proof reading my essays now. </p>

<p>Just a couple of more questions while you're at it. </p>

<p>1) Do you know how difficult it is to get a finacial aid coverage to attend schools like Oxford-Said (since it is a foreign program)? Since it is a one year program, it seem like the tuition is much more expensive than one year tuition at two year institutions.</p>

<p>2) Are you a b-school grad yourself? How is your MBA helping you in your industry or business you are in or how did it help you make that transition into civilian world?</p>

<ol>
<li>if applicable) As a former military officer, how was your class experience while pursuing your MBA and how was your experience translated into the environment?</li>
</ol>

<p>I understand some of these questions are broad but I'd really appreciate it if you can just provide rather a terse response at your own convenience. Again, thank you very much and it's good to see a fellow vet rendering his/ her expertise here at CC through their own success.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
1) Do you know how difficult it is to get a finacial aid coverage to attend schools like Oxford-Said (since it is a foreign program)? Since it is a one year program, it seem like the tuition is much more expensive than one year tuition at two year institutions.

[/quote]

Sorry - I'm not familiar w/ how other institutions manage their financial aid packages.</p>

<p>
[quote]
2) Are you a b-school grad yourself? How is your MBA helping you in your industry or business you are in or how did it help you make that transition into civilian world?

[/quote]

Yes I am -- it definitely helped to open doors into industries (primarily consulting and IB -- but also great opportunities at great companies) that would've been closed to me otherwise.</p>

<p>
[quote]
3. if applicable) As a former military officer, how was your class experience while pursuing your MBA and how was your experience translated into the environment?

[/quote]

It was great -- amidst all the ex-consultants and bankers, it's always nice to stand out a little bit. While some of my experiences couldn't 100% be replicated in the corporate world or the classroom, it was still a different perspective for them to consider. </p>

<p>
[quote]
rendering his/ her expertise here at CC through their own success.

[/quote]

Well I wouldn't go that far ;) Check back with me in 20 years...</p>

14

<p>I've been seriously thinking of becoming a military officer, and I thought I would be taking a pay cut, how are you getting the 89k figure even all in after 4 years?</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
I've been seriously thinking of becoming a military officer, and I thought I would be taking a pay cut, how are you getting the 89k figure even all in after 4 years?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As was mentioned above, it depends on where you're stationed, any additional skills or "billets" you have, and to a certain extent, what you do (military lawyers and doctors get paid a little extra, for example).
But in general, your pay grade is O-2 or O-3 at four years in, which puts you at something like ~$48k-$54k a year in base salary alone.
<a href="http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2008MilitaryPayChart.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2008MilitaryPayChart.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Then, assuming you live off base, you can factor in your base allowance for housing (BAH) which varies by your area's cost of living. In places like California, it can be anywhere from $1500-$1700 a month, non-taxable.
That'll bring you to the mid $70k range.</p>

<p>Add in BAS, COLA (if you live OCONUS), and any other special pay (language, jump, hazardous duty, geo-bachelor, etc), it starts to add up. If you're deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan, and the like, everything is tax free.</p>

<p>But if you're thinking of becoming a military officer, you're not in it for the money anyway ;)</p>