Does anyone have insight into how the CTCL schools have evolved since the book was published? Did anyone attend the sessions on their recent road tour?
Many of the programs praised in the book are now available at many colleges, and some of the colleges mentioned are now more selective.
I havenāt been on it recently, but they have a website that was more up to date even a few years ago when my lads were considering colleges. I usually refer people to it now rather than the book.
@Creekland @āErinās Dadā Thanks for the tip and link to the site.
Would love to hear from people with first-hand experience.
My Daughter just graduated from a CTCL school. She applied to several in 2015-2016. Iād be happy to share perspective but Iām not sure what you want to know. Itās been a few years since Iāve read the book.
I think the CTCL schoolās are a non-exhaustive collection of strong, not top tier, liberal arts colleges where students get an excellent education. My daughter certainly did. Youāre right, some have become more selective, and their programs arenāt necessarily unique. Itās a good starting place for a college list. Thereās a lot of great opportunities for students to take advantage of at these schools.
I just looked at Eckerdās info on the web site. My youngest graduated from there in 2018. The info looks quite accurate to me, though it leaves off that with a āloves the outdoorsā campus one also can get a higher percentage of āloves the mjā students. Princeton Review usually has them within their Top 10 for Reefer Madness. My guy was in the first category (loves the outdoors) and not the second, but still loved his time there and his two study abroad experiences in Greece (J Term) and Jordan (full semester).
Looking at the whole list, not everything seems up to date. Isnāt Hampshire one that is closing or on the verge of it?
Iād use the list as a starter, then look at specific schools of interest like any other school. Allegheny and Juniata tend to be two I know students love. Not making the list (not sure why), but relatively similar with being loved from students I know is Washington & Jefferson. Wooster I donāt know personally via students from school, but I have a couple friends whose kids have gone there and loved it.
@Creekland Thereās a statement regarding Hampshire College on the CTCL website under the āAboutā tab.
The current CTCL is probably best understood as a group of member colleges that market themselves together, no longer directly affiliated with the book, at least thatās what I gather from reading the website.
My daughter applied to Centre, Clark, Knox, Southwestern, Puget Sound, and Willamette from the current CTCL schools, as well as Trinity (TX) and Lewis and Clark. She visited all but Clark and liked them all to varying degrees.
She just graduated from Southwestern. Iād describe her experience as exactly as advertised, or better. Nice location, very pretty campus and area, to far from the city/airport. She had great relationships with many professors, she never lacked for a letter of recommendations or several, or for challenging classes, or for good advice when needed. She attended and presented at conferences, she did an REU at a top 20 university. She studied abroad twiceāthe summer Spanish program in Buenos Aires and a semester in Budapest through APIāboth fantastic experiences, and was awarded study abroad scholarships for both. While the majority of students are indeed from Texas and she was not, she gained a greater understanding and appreciation for Texas culture and added āyāallā to her vocabulary in spite of trying hard to resist at first. She also met and befriended other OOS and international students. She, as well as her fellow students are landing very interesting internships and jobs (my daughter starts a dream job for her major in a month), thereās a group of students in the finance program managing a portion of the endowment investment portfolio and doing a fantastic job, thereās strong alumni support (Texans have a lot of school spirit!). She also did all that and graduated in three years, thanks to AP and dual enrollment credit and careful planning.
For a student who is looking for an LAC experience, the CTCL schools are excellent to consider.
@Parentof2014grad Congrats to your daughter and thank you for sharing her story!
@1stTimeThruMom The original book came out in the 90ās, itās been updated since then. The most recent is 2013. The CTCL organization is not formally related to Loren Pope, but had his blessing. Some schools are no longer featured (if theyāve become too competitive, etc). https://ctcl.org/about/
Itās a great starting point.
My son (a HS grad this year) was accepted to 3 of the CTCL schools without us knowing about the book or the group.
We visited 2 of the schools, Knox and Allegheny and the book was pretty much spot on.
Best of luck!
The way I describe the original premise of the book is that these are colleges that provide a great education and are not as difficult to get into as other colleges with similar outcomes. The graduates of these schools had greater success in terms to attending graduate and professional school, selection as various sorts of scholars, and income than you would expect given the statistics of the students admitted. One of the primary factors Pope identified in why these colleges had such great outcomes was the opportunity to have meaningful intellectual relationships with professors. This might mean working on a research project or finding a mentor.
I really wanted my son to consider the CTCL schools but he will be majoring in engineering and also chose a not small school in an urban area. Most of the CTCL schools did not meet his criteria. Plus, his stats allowed him to get into somewhat more selective schools. He still chose a school with a less traditional philosophy so weāll see how it goes. I do hope that my younger daughter will consider schools in the CTCL mold. I had a very positive experience at a LAC and I do believe they are great schools for many students.
@ultimom I appreciate your insight. It is fascinating that the strength of these schools boils down to the relationship between professor and student. It is reminiscent of the age-old battle of small vs large classrooms, with education policy makers saying there is no proof that small classes benefit students.
@Theoden Great feedback. I have read about Allegheny and agree it seems like a wonderful college. Will have to check out Knox.
@1stTimeThruMom As it has been mentioned, The CTCL are not an exhaustive list, but they are an excellent representation of getting great educational ābang for your buckā.
Typicallyā¦the CTCL
- Have more than a 50% admittance rate. They accept with a broader applicant pool than the Ivies, Public Ivies or Hidden Ivies (elite Liberal Arts Colleges)
- In many cases they can be up to 10-15K cheaper off the bat than some of the elite schools
- In many cases they offer generous merit aid (as opposed to only need based aid as some Ivies and elite LAC do).
- Small student to faculty ratio
- Passionate, available teachers
- Possibility for mentorship
- Chance for internships and experiential learning
- Chance for students to do original research.
- Chance for study abroad.
- They have great records of getting students into Grad School (PhDās) including Med and Law School.
- Some of them have a healthy representation of Fulbright scholars.
The general gist is that they accomplish this by really working with the students they accept and are able to bring out potential quite well.
The elite liberal arts colleges all have 4-11 in my list, but the results shouldnāt surprise us - the students they accept have near perfect SATās, insanely high GPAās (with honors and AP classes), excellent extra curriculars, some āhookā like they started a charity that has provided 700 water wells to developing nations in Africa and Asia, they won the NYC Marathon, etc.
We really liked Allegheny and Knox. Each has itās own strengths, but have all the 11 points I mentioned above in common. In the end my son chose Knox based on gut-feel. (passionate professors, friendly/warm students, good food and nice dorms). Either school would have been a great choice. It helps to visit. He chose not to visit any school until he was accepted so we planned on 4 accepted student days (each with a sleepover in a dorm) and 1 custom visit for his top 5.
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@Theoden Interesting, thanks so much. By these measures, I think of small universities like Drew, Furman and Elon as well, though I donāt know Elonās record with med and law schools.
Does anyone else agree or disagree?
I think Drew, Furman and Elon are all excellent, but I donāt think the fact that they arenāt in CTCL makes them any less excellent than the CTCL schools. Iām sure it was a strategic decision for CTCL to make a small list, schools that are typically under the radar and not well known (not sure that Elon and Drew fall into ānot very well knownā, at least in the past few years).
We didnāt visit any CTCL schools mostly because many of them were a little to remote geographically, but the book gave us a great idea of looking at smaller schools in general, looking beyond rankings, unique things to look for, and did bring one school (Clark) into our radar for a much closer look.
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I donāt know much about those small universities. Iām sure many of them are excellent.
Simply look into those 11 criteria. Itās possible for some bigger schools to have that. My son also applied to some excellent SUNY schools. They would have some of the 11 criteria, but in terms of student to faculty ratio, personal attention, mentoring, research opportunities and study abroad they could not. One exception was SUNY-ESF, which is a small school specializing in Environmental Science. As you progress into your major at a bigger school you are more likely to get the attention of the faculty.
It all depends on what matters to the student in question.
My son wants to study Environmental Science or History.
My son would have been perfectly happy at SUNY-ESF (arguably the best environmental science school on the country, but not much else going on) or SUNY-Plattsburgh (solid Environmental Science Dept, solid History dept, gorgeous setting on Lake Champlain with Montreal and Burlington, VT an hour away, with nice dorms and great food or Allegheny (great Environmental Science Dept, solid History dept) with not so great food but he chose a small school in the prairies of Illinois (small Env Science Dept, great History dept) nice dorms and good food because he felt a passion for broad learning there and a sense of community. Some places feel more like home. Some decisions arenāt 100% rational.
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Yes, these schools will often offer educations just as outstanding as schools with much lower acceptance rates. There are lots and lots of students who would thrive in a smaller college environment but (like almost everyone) donāt have the grades/test scores/etc. to get into schools with RD acceptance rates in the 6-16% acceptance range. And hereās another, often overlooked, component. Smaller schools often have a similar number of varsity sports as much larger schools, so a high % of an incoming class are often athletic recruits, making admission much more challenging than even the low numbers suggest.
Of the CTCL schools, Iāll give a shout out to Rhodes, Whitman, and Kalamazoo Colleges. We know several recent Rhodes grads, and I was there recently. They all had great experiences. Campus is stunning. Itās a rare urban LAC (Memphis, TN). Itās in a nice, close-in suburban neighborhood. Iāll add this: I think itās a place where it could matter which way a prospective student approaches campus. I came in from downtown Memphis, and it all looked fantastic. I left another route, to a different interstate, which was pretty rough. I could imagine a family reversing my travel routes and arriving with less-than-favorable initial impressions, which would be unfortunate. Kalamazoo also has outstanding academics. Obviously a colder choice. Whitman is great for outdoorsy students.
Good luck!
Thanks, @TTG - Iāve been trying to get my son to see Rhodes, but heās decided itās too far south! Furman also has the seedy approach problem. I never found an alternate route, though!
@1stTimeThruMom Iām curious what year your son is. I had heard of CTCL from a Mom friend and elsewhere and recently attended one of the fairs with my son, who is finishing sophomore year. A number of the features of these schools appeal to him ā size, dedicated liberal arts philosophy, close faculty relationships, research and experiential learning opportunities. Weāll be visiting some schools this summer, and heās doing sports recruiting events. Iām curious to compare notes.
@CTMom21 My son is a junior, rising senior. I have another younger son not yet in HS.