A little about me: when I initially went to college from 2007-2011, I received a degree history/poli sci (out of both self-delusion and desire to party, it was at a much lesser academic school than I am at now) and had menial jobs afterwards. Very recently, I started a second undergrad degree to study computer science.
I’ve noticed in two of the three classes I’m taking now, professors seem to almost deliberately poorly explain things or beat around the bush, things that only warranted a 2-second explanation. They’re vague about final grading and when slack is cut. The semester this one, I took another course that was known to be a weedout, and my current courses feel similar. Are these characteristics of weeder classes, or manipulation, or both?
You’re the political scientist, surely you can read the powers over you. B-)
But in all seriousness, I would say yes. I’m in a class considered to be a weeder (by students at least) in my major (aerospace engineering). But I think the point is to get your to push yourself and stretch your limits, so that you are prepared for what’s ahead. I know it can seem like the teacher is dragging you through a long process to do something that could be summed up briefly, and you’re likely right. But they are likely doing it so that you more fully understand the processes behind the topic. I guess it should help in the long run… we’ll see, I’m just a freshman too.
If you are able to get through weeder courses successfully then what follows is likely to be successful too. Take the challenge and do the best you can.
i gotta say I’m not feeling too good about Calculus II: I went from a B+ average to a B- over the last test before the final we just took (I got barely above 50% on it). I’d rather die than have under a 3.0 GPA this semester.
“I know it can seem like the teacher is dragging you through a long process to do something that could be summed up briefly, and you’re likely right” How does that help one learn?? Isn’t the essence of teaching to be able to explain it to a 4th grader?
You said that you were in computer science, not education. A lot of STEM stuff could not be explained to a 4th
grader.
As for Calc II, it is a tough course. Probably the toughest of the Calc sequence. Study hard for that final. There’s a reason STEM majors are stereotypically seen as tough. They are. You can do it, try to get tutoring, go to the teacher for help, work extra problems.
Also, how is your class going overall? I’m in a programming class now (with a bunch of other stuff mixed in, numerical methods and more), and I have a C. But I have to keep in mind that the average is failing and the median is a D. Now, I doubt that is the case for most math classes, but it’s something to keep in mind for future STEM classes.
If you feel as though things aren’t being explained well, ask for clarification! Often, especially in Math/CS, teachers will assume something is obvious when it’s not. I don’t think you have a weeder class or manipulation on your hands - I think you have a miscommunication between you and the professor.
If the whole class is failing, that’s on the professor. But, if most of the class is doing alright, you may want to seek help in extra office hours or tutoring. Some people get some things quicker than others, and a teacher can’t stay on a topic until there is complete understanding from 100% of the class unfortunately.
Additionally, there’s an important distinction between courses that are designed to be weeders and those that are just simply difficult courses where many people will drop/fail. An intro CS course is a prime example usually of the latter, not the former. Few courses are actually true weeders - in that they are malicious and designed to make students struggle if they are not at the top.
“Weeding” may be due to having secondary admission criteria into the major, usually because student demand for the major is greater than the department has the capacity to handle. If the major is so popular that you need a 3.5 GPA to get into it, then the “weeding” effect is heavy, in that respectable grades like B+ will mean that you are “weeded out”.
For a science major the very lowest level intro classes are more of sort-out than weed-out, they’re time consuming, but not conceptually that hard, a litmus test to see if you can handle the upper level stuff and allow you to change majors fairly easily if you can’t. The stage between the more specialized upper level classes and lower level classes is the weed-out. Once you’ve gotten past the basic intro classes, but are still taking classes with no other options.
Some very well said posts above. Mandalorian said it perfect. They are not intended to weed out. They are to ensure that you understand the basics and are able to handle the upper level classes - sort out, not weed out.
PengsPhils advise on seeking help is absolute key. Math always had come easy for my son. In his first semester at a major research college he got an A+ in Calc 3. His next math course (taking now) is a proof based Linear Algebra course. It isn’t so easy for him. For the first several weeks of the semester, he went to office hours essentially every day. If there was anything that he didn’t understand, he asked, and asked again. He now thinks he gets it and I believe is tracking to an A or A-. Don’t think you can’t get access to a competent prof or GSA/TA most every day. My son has at a large school - so help is there for you.
Profs in weeder classes sometime slack, in my opinion. They have some students who are repeating the material for a relatively easy A, a lot of students gunning for good grades, and it is easy for a prof to assume that a student who is less prepared coming in is just slow and/or undeserving of making it through the weeding, Easier than adding tutoring sessions or extra material for students who are struggling.
My weedout classes have been more geared towards those who grasp the concept right away. They are taught in such a way that if you don’t get the class intuitively then you have to work fairly hard. IMO this is what a weedout should do. Those classes that are just so incredibly hard that only smart, hardworking people will succeed in strike me as upper division courses.
I agree with Mandalorian. Most sciences are very sequential. The concepts build on one another. If you haven’t mastered the concepts of a course whether it be mathematics, physics, chemistry etc. it will be much more difficult for you in higher level courses. Many students come to college without either the backround needed to be successful in their initial science courses or lack the study habits necessary to be successful. Unlike HS, college typically requires a lot more self study, homework is much less a part of grading and tests become much more important. There may only be a few tests so failing one has a much greater impact on ones grades. Students used to extra credit or being able to improve their grades through handing in homework may find their grades suffer unless/until they change their habits. More material is usually covered during the semester and much of it may not be covered in class and students are often required to learn much of what will be tested on their own. The good news is that test may often be curved and those who make an effort will usually find help is available. I am not crazy about the term “weed out” because I don’t think that is the goal though I will concede that can be result.
I get that its not supposed to be easy, but is the LYING, manipulation, and misleading that the professors do in such classes commonplace? Quite frankly, the delibate ambiguity on the part of professors, who maybe think they’re motivating people to do things they otherwise wouldn’t, is dishonest LYING.
My kid is at a large research university. One her STEM professors was awful and did not teach the course. The kids had to sit around after class in study groups and learn the material. They were evaluated by a Department exam (not made by the teacher)—so they were held to account whether or not the professor taught the material. She complained of material on the exam that wasn’t even taught in her class—BUT, learning in this type of environment is a skill. Being able to teach yourself a difficult concept or learn it with a group of teammates is a gift. It’s an eminently useful skill in the work force. Employers know kids at her school have been in trial by fire. They won’t spoon-feed you material in college; they want you to learn to solve problems and be independent. Profs are often paid to do research, not to teach. Teaching is just an afterthought (except at certain liberal arts universities.)
then why do profs exist in the first place? It feels like a con, a lie. Also, let the workforce be the workforce, and the schoolforce be the schoolforce! In my math class, this is doable and I’m doing it. However, for computer science, this is not acceptable!!!
Did I miss where you actually said what they are doing that is lying/manipulation/misleading? I have trouble believe that is the case, and if so, it isn’t common. Can you give specific examples?
Again, is the whole class struggling, part of the class, or just you as far as you know?
@Skrunch is not what I consider a weedout class - I call that a bad one, despite the positive lessons the students may have taken away. Professors don’t need to spoonfeed you, but they should care about teaching a bit more than an afterthought - research is important too, and having a focus there is fine, but not if you can’t even do the basics of a class. That is a bad class/professor/school.
the lying/manipulation is being ambiguous about grading processes, beating around the bush for things that are actually easy to explain, making assignments that start stupid easy and become extremely hard towards the end, which I consider to be misleading.
While not perfect, I don’t think this is designed to be a weeding factor. More just a bad class policy.
This is very subjective and is probably more that the professor isn’t a good teacher. Again, you never answered the question about how the rest of the class is faring, though… Could you answer that one?
I’m not sure what you are expecting here - in any subject, introducing things in basic form and then increasing difficulty is a very common and not really a poor practice. CS has a steep learning curve that good schools should try to tackle in teaching, and it sounds like it is not the best here, but this isn’t misleading…
To me, it sounds like you are struggling with a subject personally in a school with bad teaching - I don’t think there’s anything malicious going on…
if you are in a STEM program you are sitting at the adult table now. if you go to college and you take a major like sociology or communications etc… you do so for a reason and expect it to be easy. (that is why I chose my major) but if you go back to school for something like chemistry, comp sci. etc… you will have really hard classes…and they may not be weeder classes they just may be really hard!
I don’t think that what @zobroward said about STEM being objectionably harder is always true (coming from a CS major), but I think he is very right on one thing: your situation is more about a class simply being hard, not being in a malicious weeder class.
