Chem in HS

This is absolutely true, in our experience. For core classes like calc and physics (STEM major) we do not use the AP credit. The college classes are more rigorous and serve as a base for other STEM classes. We do take the AP credit for English and some of the social sciences.

The best U’s will offer more than one general chemistry course- one size does not fit all. Those without HS chemistry will need so much to catch up to the vast majority who have at least one HS course in it. Those with AP chemistry may opt for a general chemistry course that presumes a lot of HS knowledge, like one of those UW-Madison offers. Great idea that medical schools require college chemistry. AP courses are merely average versions found at so-so colleges. College chemistry course expect students to come in with some knowledge- the pace is too fast for learning the basics. HS classes prepare one for college versions- math, science, lit/English classes all keep building knowledge and skills from elementary school onwards. Think of how many times the same areas are covered over the years- reinforcing and increasing the depth of knowledge. btw- even the 103 non-honors chemistry course at UW is tough- not an easy comparable to AP chem course (important for those who think taking it compared to higher numbered courses will be easier). Don’t try to game the system, a given college’s courses will go beyond what is offered in AP versions. In a way it is too bad HS students can use AP credits instead of taking the college version that has more material et al in upper tier schools.

We do have a first-year honors undergraduate chemistry course, which can be taken by students with AP credit, without having to decline the AP credits. If covers a lot of material that the AP course does not cover. I don’t believe that a student without some prior chemistry background could place into it, though.

Quite a few students opt for the regular undergrad course–even the lowest-level freshman course–despite having credit through AP. The lowest level course is not more advanced than AP. The other two levels are.

It’s not for everyone, but my older son took high school chemistry in a 3 week fast-paced courses through CTY the summer after freshman year. That’s a hard summer to find good things to do. (Too young for most work permits, too old for regular camps.) He took the NYS Regent’s exam in August and they gave him credit for it.

I took Physics I in college and they assumed I’d had chemistry, preferably the college Chem course that all the other pre-meds took. I was not premed and had only a high school course several years earlier, so I didn’t remember a thing. It made that unit of physics pretty much impossible.

Good luck to her. I do think she’d be better off with a chemistry course, but don’t recommend one with a lousy teacher - that’s what my younger son did and I think it scarred him for chemistry forever!

A better way to determine whether to take advanced placement with AP credit is to try the college’s old final exams for the courses that can be skipped. How well the student can handle those old final exams will allow making a more informed decision of whether to take the advanced placement, take the advanced placement but review a few things, or retake the course before taking the more advanced course.

Retaking the course when not necessary is just a waste of time and tuition that could otherwise be used to learn something new.

Question for those who say that one should always repeat one’s AP credit: if a high school student completes AP calculus BC in 11th grade or earlier (with a 5 on the AP exam) and can take additional math at a local college in 12th grade, would you tell him/her to start calculus over by taking calculus 1, or move ahead and take calculus 3?

My son’s school gives AP credit for Chemistry as general education requirements only, so they can’t test out of General Chemistry 1&2 with AP credits. Students can take an exam to test out of the classes, but it isn’t recommended. And Gen Chem is the pre-med weed-out class for pre-med and BME.

I have heard from the son that kids who took AP Chemistry before taking Gen Chem were shocked that first semester was focused on quantum mechanics. He didn’t take AP Chem (Honors Chem only) and did pretty well in the class compared to his peers.

I would check the requirements for any college that OP’s student is considering applying.

@ucbalumnus, Ha-ha!
" if a high school student completes AP calculus BC in 11th grade or earlier (with a 5 on the AP exam)…would you tell him/her to start calculus over by taking calculus 1, or move ahead and take calculus 3"

One of our local CCs is trying to do just that! They claim that there is a 1 chapter(!) difference in what is covered by their Calc2 and AP. Somehow, MIT accepted those APs just fine.

“For core classes like calc and physics (STEM major) we do not use the AP credit. The college classes are more rigorous and serve as a base for other STEM classes.”

As for that, this was definitely not our experience. I know for sure that intro Physics and Calc courses at least in UCSD, UCSB, UCSC, UIUC and some in UCB were much easier and less deep and wide that what was covered in the corresponding APs at our school.
My S was taking intro Chem at his college (as he didn’t trust his HS chemistry) and says that it was almost exactly what they have covered in his Chem H, only taught better.

As far as I know (we researched the topic before) Princeton, CalTech and UChicago do have completely different level of intro classes and thus do not allow to “AP” out of them (and rightfully so!) but even there, there are placement tests.

A general chemistry class that spends half the year on Quantum is being taught extremely poorly.

Another option would be taking an online high school Chemistry course through one of the universities that offer such courses. BYU is well-regarded for such courses and offers an honors level Chemistry course “taught by an award-winning Chemistry teacher”.

Depending on how strictly or loosely “Quantum” is being defined, it could be reasonable for a general chemistry class (of a somewhat experimental type, admittedly) to spend half a year on quantum topics. This would include constituents of matter, atomic structure and properties, chemical bonding, forces between molecules, gas phase dynamics, chemical reactions from a fundamental viewpoint, and even “macroscopic” chemistry topics such as thermodynamics and electrochemistry. If the students understood what was going on, they would leave the course with a much better understanding of chemistry than students in the typical general chemistry course gain. With half the year left, there would be plenty of time for descriptive inorganic chemistry and stoichiometry, and whatever else is taught in a normal general chemistry class.

re that math. A student needs to discuss with the school’s math department to see if their version’s content was covered. It also matters what the AP score was- a 3 versus a 5 is different. There have been students at UW-Madison with a lot of HS calculus who started beyond the first honors course in that sequence.

re chemistry. Each time you take a course you build on previous knowledge. Those with strong courses who get A’s will have an easier time than those with lesser classes/grades. Therefore a huge yes for taking chemistry while in HS for a potential STEM major especially.