<p>This all jibes with my understanding of these schools. </p>
<p>WPI and Tufts have very different approaches to engineering than Cornell and CMU, which are hardcore. (Tufts and WPI have very different approaches - World view vs. Hands on). There is great value in going hardcore for those who can handle it, but it comes at too high of emotional and social price for many students, and both WPI and Tufts are much more manageable, though have more limited offerings. They are not easy, but manageable. </p>
<p>The daughter of the OP went to the Women’s Technology Program at MIT, which is very intense, and she still wanted to go to MIT afterwards. This suggests to me that she might like the intensity of “hardcore” that you find at Cornell or CMU. WTP is extremely difficult to get into, and she must be a top shelf student. </p>
<p>There are plenty of people who went to Cornell or CMU and found it too intense and wished they had gone somewhere that gave them time to digest the material and preserve their self-confidence. </p>
<p>My comments weren’t meant to be a knock on WPI or Tufts, just a recognition of what their niches are. I recently went to an engineering open house at Tufts and I was very impressed with how forthcoming the representative was (I believe it was Admissions Dan himself) about what Tufts engineering is, and what it isn’t. I suspect, but don’t know for sure, that WPI would be as forthcoming.</p>
<p>I was a student there. There is a career fair with lots of companies, but to my knowledge there is no core recruiting (i.e. X slots guaranteed for students from a specific college) and I knew of no one at my time there who had an on campus interview. On the other hand, Cornell will have core recruiting from lots of big and well known companies. There will also be frequent on campus interviews. </p>
<p>Also, the amount of research will depend on the specific area, but in general there are far fewer research opportunities than at CMU or Cornell. It will likely be necessary to do an REU at another school to prepare oneself for PhD admissions.</p>
<p>We all agree that the schools under discussion are very different in approach, perhaps intensity, and perhaps outcomes. I believe that most students ultimately end up in the place that is “right” for them. I do also believe however, that viewpoints can be affected by regional prejudices, exposure and backgrounds. I felt it wise to poll others who perhaps had better knowledge/experience with these schools. I was afraid that D was “settling” after a great disappointment with a school/culture that she greatly identified with.
chockchipcookie: I agree with your skepticism regarding the first bit of al6200’s post. Yet, this is from a former student. The project portion of WPI does seem exciting, but is it really just a hook? I am also uncertain about the 7-week terms and actual “liberal arts” portion. I am reserving judgement.
liven487: I appreciate the link you provided. I was disappointed to find the lack of information regarding D’s specific major interest: Chemical Engineering. When we visited, they spoke about what a strong program and opportunties after graduation. Again, need to do more research in this area on all. Evidence of a strong program at Cornell and CMU is easliy verifiable.
ClassicRockerDad: Your responses are appreciated and well reasoned. Your assessments seem right on. Thank you for your insights. I do worry a bit about the reported intensity of Cornell and how some students have a very difficult time coping. I am well aware of the tragedies that have occurred in the past several years there as D1 is in the area and reports on such things.</p>
<p>We all just want to be as educated as we can in order to help guide our children. It will ultimately be her decision. And yes, we will be waiting until April. </p>
<p>We are from a small rural regional 9-town high school where less than 50% go on to additional schooling of any kind (includes part-time classes at the state Tech School, trades, etc.). D1 (the artsy kid) did well for herself studying communication/photoj at Ithaca College. I wish for the same type of match and success for D2 (the Nerdy one - said with pride!).</p>
<p>Oops, classicrockerdad: I apologize. My S1 is at Tufts, but not studying engineering. He is double majoring and also has a minor in the school of Arts & Sciences. He is definitely a “top shelf” kid, but wanted to step back and not go to such an intense undergrad program. He would like to go to a top grad school when the time comes.</p>
<p>It is my S2 who wants to study engineering, but since he’s a h.s. soph, we have plenty of time. He will be doing a 3 week Frontiers program this summer at WPI.</p>
<p>Mnmmom: I agree with you re: WPI’s 7 week terms, but it also gives the kids fewer classes to focus on at one time…WPI does have plenty of Liberal Arts, so that is not a concern for me. My nerdy, engineering kid also loves reading & writing. He’s also academically in a different category than my S1, so WPI and schools “less intense” (I think) would be a better fit. The hands on projects are right up his alley.</p>
<p>D1 attends WPI and absolutely loves everything about it. She has a very active social life, and still has very good grades (mostly As and a few Bs). </p>
<p>She did not look at CMU, but did consider Cornell. She looked at Cornell, but was definitely put off by the high intensity of the culture. She also had read reports of an increase number of suicides among students, and that scared her away from even applying. </p>
<p>The culture at WPI is ‘friendly nerds’. A child has to be happy and feel that they fit in at a school. She likes the Humanities requirements, and is majoring in engineering, but minoring in a foreign language. </p>
<p>WPI does have an extensive Career Center and hosts several career fairs a year. The project based learning is very unique, especially the Junior year IQP project.</p>
<p>Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.</p>
<p>I should point out the obvious, but the benefit of the high intensity hardcore approach is that if successful, you learn a fair amount more in the same amount of time, often work on more difficult problems, have the opportunity to work with professors and graduate students working that the highest level of their field and have the best opportunities to go on to graduate school at that level. For the high power research jobs, it’s the way to go, and the WPI approach is less likely to get you there. For most routine engineering jobs, both ways are fine.</p>
<p>I have to bring up a variable that I’ve been thinking waiting for responses from all the schools my son has applied to for engineering. </p>
<p>It is the STEM school versus Rounded school atmosphere. A school like WPI or RPI are STEM schools, practically everyone around you is a tech person. 65% of RPI students are engineering majors. That has to appeal to the student and feel like a match. </p>
<p>CMU is a STEM school but they have managed to balance it some with some music/art majors. Same with RIT with Photo and the school of the American Crafts.</p>
<p>Cornell is not a STEM school. </p>
<p>So it isn’t just how hard the program is but who all is around you for 4 years.</p>
<p>^^Well said, Lakemom. That’s basically what I was trying to say when I said my S1 chose Tufts over Cornell & CMU. He didn’t want the pressure cooker atmosphere and felt that way when visiting those schools. I was a bit disappointed because he had the grades and scores to go to the top,top, but he really wanted to balance school with play.</p>
<p>OP: If your D is choosing WPI over Cornell or CMU, maybe she wanted more of the “laid back” atmosphere, where it’s a smaller school and perhaps more friendly. I’m not saying they don’t work at WPI, but maybe not as intensely!</p>
<p>Good to know your D is happy at WPI, gsmomma. I will pm you after this summer’s Frontiers program if S2 is still considering engineering and WPI! :)</p>
<p>OP: RPI is not in the running? I was told they have a wonderful state of the art campus…</p>
<p>gsmomma: Thanks for the firsthand insight. I believe D2 identifies with the “friendly nerds”, but is also adamant about research and Master’s level, with PhD later. We’ll be visiting again in a few weeks. I will definitely message you, thanks for the offer.</p>
<p>Lakemom: Great insight. I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head!</p>
<p>chochipcookie: I was just thinking about “Big fish, small pond: Big pond, small fish”. Ultimately it will be her decision. She does see it as choosing a home for the next four years. She absolutely loved her experience at WTP and strongly identified with the culture of MIT. I feared that MIT’s rejection made her doubt her “worthiness” and was coloring her decisions. </p>
<p>BTW: RPI was not in the running though she has friends that go there. She wouldn’t even apply because she disliked Troy and said she’d never feel at home there. “What kind of school builds a multi-million dollar performing arts center, yet has no music program nor arts program?” Band-geek officially offended.</p>
<p>OP: Please tell your D not to take MIT’s rejection personally. We know 3 kids, all super gifted, over the top intelligence and EC’s that were turned down by MIT. One kid applied twice (he finished h.s. in three years). He is an accomplished author. MIT turned him down twice! Harvard and Cal Tech accepted him and he is now a very happy freshman at Cal Tech. MIT’s rejection should not be a personal rejection of your D and her talents.</p>
<p>I also want to mention that while schools like CMU and Cornell do have very high expectations of their students, things are pretty much always a collaborative atmosphere where you’re expected to work with other students to get your work done. During my entire undergrad in engineering at CMU I can only think of one class where we weren’t allowed to collaborate with other people.</p>
<p>Ditto. MIT will tell you this themselves. They publish an admissions blogs and they say that they receive far more worthwhile application than they can admit, and they have no real way to decide, so while they do the best that they can only because they must, they admit it’s a flawed process with judgements made by flawed humans and by no means should a rejection affect your D’s measure of her self-worth.</p>