chemistry classes

Colleges and Universities A-Z Duke University
21

<p>Had an AP chem score of 5 from junior year of high school but wanted to take chem 31 as a refresher. The chem department kept sending warning emails that I would be taken out of chem 31 automatically if i didn’t sign up for chem 43 or chem 151. So it might not be official policy to prevent you from taking chem 31 with AP score 5 but they “strongly encouraged” me to take higher levels.</p>

<p>Didn’t really enjoy chem 43. Yo can always drop down to chem 31 from a higher level but I don’t remember if the first exam date was before or after the add/drop deadline.</p>

22

<p>Unless the first exam is within the first 2 weeks of school it’s after the school-wide drop/add. However, I believe in the years past, the chem department has always extended their internal drop/add to accommodate those who want to drop down.</p>

23

<p>SBR is correct, the Chem dept allowed you to drop down, but you had to meet with Roy and demonstrate that you were below average (meaning you had to have done very poorly on the first midterm), IMHO Chem 43 was fine, required a lot of problem solving and practice problems, whereas chem 31 focused more on theory.</p>

24

<p>SBR with regards to biochem, i was referring to that some institutions will substitute but not all, the problem with med school pre-reqa :-)</p>

25

<p>But one needs to be careful, sometimes the substitution is for organic chem instead of gen chem.</p>

26

<p>I’m most likely pre-med and I have a 5 on AP Chem. I was planning to enroll in Chem 31L as a refresher in the fall, but after hearing that a 5 on the AP test might prevent me from taking that, I’m not sure what I should do. Should I just enroll in Chem 31L and wait to see if they try to kick me out? If they do say I can’t take 31L, I can’t decide if I would want to go into 43L or 151L. While I would like a refresher, I’ve heard 43L is really hard and not much of a refresher, so I’m leaning toward taking 151L instead. However, this now creates a problem with the general chemistry requirements for a lot of medical schools in that I will take 32L after orgo and I will have AP credit for Chem 19, but some schools won’t take this AP credit. So, 43L or 151L?</p>

27

<p>Which schools won’t take AP? </p>

<p>43 from what I hear is actually a good refresher for the basic concepts like equilibria and kinetics. So take that if you think you won’t remember any of that when MCAT rolls around. </p>

<p>Take 151 if you feel comfortable that when the you start reviewing for the MCAT 2-3 years from now all you’ll need to jog your memory is a review book or kaplan/PR course. Mind you, by then it’ll have been 2-4 years since you’ve touched gen chem depending on when you took your APs.</p>

28

<p>Going along with SBR, Chem 43 is a great refesher of gen chem (assuming you need it). It covers, thermodynamics, kinetics, equilibrium, trends, etc. Doesn’t cover electrochemistry (that is in Chem 32). Also some additional topics we covered was organic naming, functional groups, structures, which made the beginning of organic chemistry very easy. Also we covered some basic biochemistry, like amino acids and protein structure. However, a lot of this can be learned on your own, but I found Chem 43 valuable.</p>

29

<p>According to Duke’s Health Advising website: [Office</a> of Health Professions Advising – Duke University](<a href=“http://prehealth.duke.edu/preparing/course-requirements/ap-credits/ap-chemistry/]Office”>http://prehealth.duke.edu/preparing/course-requirements/ap-credits/ap-chemistry/)</p>

<p>We have found that many health professions schools will still expect you to complete 3-4 semesters of chemistry in college. Thus, we advise students who have AP/IPC credit for CHEM 18 or 19 and take CHEM 43L and CHEM 151L/152L, or students who go directly into CHEM 151L/152L, to take an additional course in chemistry. Most students will opt for that additional “chemistry” course to be BIOCHEM 227</p>

30

<p>I don’t think that having an AP Chem credit will be a problem. I haven’t yet encountered a school that flat out said they wouldn’t take AP credits. However that advice about biochem is sound, not only will it help with a bio/chem minor, but it also shows med schools that you are willing to take additional advanced courses beyond the requirements. For some schools (such as Duke Med), biochem is actually required.</p>

31

<p>i had 5’s in chem and calc and i think i know the two pretty wel, but will taking chem 151 and math 103 be too mcuh or a ton of work or anything? and how hard would u say orgo is at duke, w/ at these rumors about orgo everywhere?</p>

32

<p>I also have a 5 in Chem in Calc. I know that I’m taking 103 for math.</p>

<p>For chem, I believe that I will take 43L (with the AP Chem Credit for 19, this equals one year of general lab [to be on the safe side with med schools], and then 151/152 spring of fresh and fall of sopho year. This would be the med school requirements, correct? Then biochem 227 senior year (part of being a BME and it looks good).</p>

<p>SBR, would this scenario work? Because I am also debating going straight into Orgo, but this means I’d have to come back later and take another gen chem course correct? So, why not just take it in the beginning as a refresher even if I dont need it?</p>

33

<p>Wildcat: your scenario is fine. I did something similar my first semester with Chem 23 and Math 103. I put off orgo until sophomore year but taking it sooner can’t hurt either. Although you might want to think about taking biochem a bit sooner if you can get orgo done by sophomore year. I took it senior year but many of my friends took it junior fall.</p>

34

<p>The 31 –> 151 scenario: Wouldn’t this be easier? I mean it’s the same material but an easier course from what I understand.</p>

<p>The going straight to 151 –> 152 –> Biochem 227 scenario: Can I do this with being fine for medical school? If you go to that link I posted earlier it says:</p>

<p>It is critical that you place yourself in the appropriate general chemistry sequence at Duke. For information about how to choose your chemistry courses, please go to: [Admissions</a> & Placement-- Undergraduates – Chemistry at Duke](<a href=“http://www.chem.duke.edu/undergraduates/placement/chart.php]Admissions”>http://www.chem.duke.edu/undergraduates/placement/chart.php).</p>

<p>AP/IPC credit in chemistry is listed on the Duke transcript as CHEM 18 for an AP score of 4, and CHEM 19 for an AP score of 5. If you had strong high school preparation in chemistry and place into either CHEM 43L or CHEM 151L, you should enroll in the course into which you place. If you are overwhelmed, you can drop back to the lower level course.</p>

<p>We have found that many health professions schools will still expect you to complete 3-4 semesters of chemistry in college. Thus, we advise students who have AP/IPC credit for CHEM 18 or 19 and take CHEM 43L and CHEM 151L/152L, or students who go directly into CHEM 151L/152L, to take an additional course in chemistry. Most students will opt for that additional “chemistry” course to be BIOCHEM 227. Please note that at Duke biochemistry is taught through the Biochemistry Department rather than the Chemistry Department.</p>

<p>A few medical schools require biochemistry, but many more strongly recommend biochemistry. You should check to see if schools to which you may want to apply require or strongly recommend biochemistry. If they do, then you should take it. This is particularly true if the school is in your state of residence.</p>

<p>We have found that since biochemistry is not taught with a laboratory at Duke, if you opt to take CHEM 32L, CHEM 43L, or to go directly into CHEM 151L/152L, health professions schools have generally accepted the fact that the 3-4 semesters of chemistry you take at Duke may only include two or three formal laboratory courses (CHEM 151L/152L). Occasionally, this is disputed by one or more health professions schools at the time you apply, but we advocate for applicants who face this situation and health professions schools generally agree to accept the chemistry prerequisite met in this way at Duke.</p>

<p>… So according to this, I could be fine going straight into Orgo? As it says that the schools will understand once Duke explains. Will the schools actually understand though? haha</p>

35

<p>In the case of 31 –> 151 –> 152, some students have posted that the chem department strongly encourages those who have a 5 on AP Chem take 43L or 151L. I’m not sure how true that is. </p>

<p>As for 151 –> 152 –> 227, I’m not really sure what this advocating thing will do. It could be that some med schools will take it at face value. But I know this. Say you have AP Chem and you take 151, 152, 227. Then it’s likely that med schools will recognize the fact that you’ve never taken an inorganic lab at the university level. Given that the quality and content of AP Chem courses vary wildly at high schools around the world, med schools will be hard pressed to figure out exactly how much lab experience you’ve had. Anyway, I’m just pointing out that it can get a bit difficult to justify to med schools why they should consider your 2-year lab requirement fulfilled when you’ve only taken 1 year of formal lab in college.</p>

<p>On a side note, if you take 151-152-227 and have AP credit, then why not take one more course and get a chem minor? That way, you get an additional minor and wouldn’t have to worry about the whole advocating thing.</p>

36

<p>Would 151-152-32-227 eliminate any problems with med schools?</p>

37

<p>yeah, if you have AP credit then it should be fine</p>

<p>You can check for yourself in my post #7 on page 1 of this thread. I posted links to the requirements pages of many of the top med schools in the country. They all spell out exactly what their requirements are.</p>

38

<p>If I decide to take 43L in the fall and 151L in the spring, I’m thinking of taking 152L in the summer so that I don’t have to worry about orgo at all sophomore year. Has anyone had any experience with this that they’d like to share? I know it’ll be difficult, but is it like a summer-ruining, GPA-killing kind of deal, or is it manageable?</p>

39

<p>okay,</p>

<p>Last fall the Chem dept. manually removed people with 5’s on the AP Chem test from Chem 31, the only way back in was if you bombed the 43L test, which then you could meet and discuss dropping down.</p>

<p>If you have a 5 you can do either:
43->151->152->Biochem
or
151->152->32->Biochem</p>

<p>Both work, I think the 43 route is good (the one I am taking, and completed 43 and 151 with 152 up next). The route is not that bad.</p>

<p>Also doing 152 over the summer is not a bad idea, in general I have heard that summer courses are not that bad. I have a few friends currently doing that path and they don’t think its that bad.</p>

40

<p>Thanks vasudevank! That info is really helpful. :)</p>

<p>I was looking at the course description of Chem 32L on CourseRank (useful website, by the way: <a href=“https://duke.courserank.com/duke/home[/url]”>https://duke.courserank.com/duke/home&lt;/a&gt;), and it looks like some of the topics that Chem 32 covers include “intermolecular interactions, phases of matter, solutions, quantitative treatment of aqueous equilibria, electron transfer reactions, and inorganic and coordination chemistry”. Are these not covered in 43L as well?</p>