<p>As undergraduate admissions become more competitive, do you think that the stereotype of UChicago's nerdy, quirky student body is falling away? I think that since colleges are becoming more selective, students are often picking Chicago for its high rankings, not for its atmosphere. For example, if a student is rejected at their first choice and is deciding between Chicago and College X that is a better fit but not as prestigious, he or she will pick Chicago. Talking to students from 2012 at the overnight and other students, I have gotten the impression that many of them are aware of the stereotype, but have just figured that its not overwhelming and they can survive it, so the college is picking up a high population of "typical" college kids. I think of myself as a primary example. As many of you know, I ended up choosing Chicago over Cornell. I feel like I fit better at cornell in terms of student body however, as I am an athlete that likes to drink a lot and listen to loud rap at parties, and only do schoolwork IN school. Chicago won the battle over Cornell though due to its strength in mathematics. Anyone have opinions on this?</p>
<p>I know personally from chatting in the facebook group and just talking to 2012-ers on the phone and in person, the entering first year class seems to be as nerdy as ever. The things we talk about and the interests that many people have just scream out quirky/intellectual.</p>
<p>This is an ongoing kind of conversation.</p>
<p>I think the University has gradually become more mainstream over the past ten years (and started changing a ton over the past 2-3 years) and even though I'm all for U of C tradition and character, I think the general trend towards an increase in competitive admission and an increase in mainstream flavor are very good things, and if anything tend to enhance the U of C character... maybe we're not so much the exclusive, closeted, academics as we are the involved, interested, embracing, academically interested smart kids.</p>
<p>As we become a more attractive school generally, we become more attractive to both "normal people" and "nerdy people." Some people are attracted to it because it seems like a great place to study something (you). Some people are attracted to it because it's in a city. Some people are attracted to it because it exudes some flavor and personality. Some people are attracted to it because the emphasis is on the books and not the parties. Some people are attracted to it because they feel there's a higher chance that people will be discussing philosophy in the house lounge here than at other schools. I could go on.</p>
<p>A lot of students who are applying now (and love it now) would be repulsed by the school as it was 10 years ago... both "normal" and "nerdy" kids. (I could use myself as an example of a "nerdy" kid who wouldn't have liked this school 10 years ago). Once upon a time, I think that choosing the U of C was seen as a real sacrifice to one's social life and mental health... I think now people pretty much see that you can do what you want here and you'll find the friends and opportunities that make you happy.</p>
<p>Fifteen years ago, Chicago had a terrible reputation for undergraduate quality of life -- probably deserved -- and it essentially had open admissions for anyone who was basically capable of doing the work. So of course its student body was going to trend towards kids who didn't care so much about quality of life, or who were willing to trade it for top-notch academic opportunities. Now, its undergraduate quality of life is fine or better -- certainly no real barrier to anyone deciding where to go to college and who doesn't mind an urban setting -- and it gets more than three times the number of applications it did back then. So everything has been changing: who applies, who is accepted, who decides to enroll. Guess what? That is going to change the general atmosphere, and relatively quickly.</p>
<p>There's still a strong element of self-selection in who applies, and in who decides to enroll. Even though the student body is probably getting more mainstream, it's a sector of the mainstream that really values academic challenge, intellectualism, and, yes, quirkiness. And by that I mean people like unalove and chicagoboy12. Or my kids.</p>
<p>My kid, too. S will get upset if the quirky intellectual atmosphere dissipates too much, though. That's one of Chicago's big attractions for him.</p>
<p>im all for the drift. i see myself as an intellectual, but im also into things normal college kids like doing (partying, drinking, lots of fun student activities) so i'm glad uchicago isnt being just filled with unsocial nerds</p>
<p>Couldn't agree with you more, Unalove. The first time I visited Chicago, something like 6 years ago, a scary number of the students I met fit the awkward/excessively-nerdy/incapable-of-interacting-with-other-human-beings stereotype to a T. The changes the school has made since then in undergrad life are pretty much all for the better. Don't be too worried about change, since the institutional safeguards like Core, Scav, etc. help keep our eccentricities around, while the mainstreaming of our student body has made life much more well-rounded. Intellectualism and quirkiness aren't going anywhere, but they have been moderated in a way that I think is ultimately better for everyone.</p>
<p>This is and interesting topic.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that one big distinguishing factor at chicago, relative lack of grade inflation and the expectation of hard work, are things under faculty control, not admissions, and not the students themselves.</p>
<p>So even more than nerdiness, what sets chicago kids apart is their hunger for learning, appetite for hard work and expectation of a challenge. That is not changing at all.</p>
<p>BTW, on this note, it is interesting to note the blowback that has taken place on the parents forum about claims that chicago kids work harder. Some non-chicago parents took great offense at the thought that THEIR kids were not hard working and so forth. So, for the record, that is not my point. My point is that the hard work is expected of all - there are few slacker courses, I'm told (but heck, if they exist, maybe that would be a good topic.) Instead, folks on these boards seem to enjoy discussing the "killer" courses like honors analysis.</p>
<p>Talk about enjoying killer courses, that's my kid. When he's been asked about his second year plans, the faculty responses are " Good God" and " For the love of God". I'm trying to talk him down. HS never offered enough and he says Chicago is a dangerous place, there is too much that appeals to him. I know he'll figure it out, but anyone have advice?</p>
<p>Join the club. All we can do is sit back and not relax.</p>
<p>At least there is company...........thanks.</p>
<p>The faculty will not change its approach and the culture of inquiry will remain. I believe, that over the years, the college culture shapes its inhabitants more than the inhabitants shape the college culture.</p>
<p>I think what we tend to forget is that being intellectual and being social are not mutually exclusive, and my impression from CC is that we're starting to draw kids in *because*we offer this amazing academic experience, but no longer at the expense of other things. </p>
<p>I would categorize most Chicago students as both intellectual and social in varying degrees. I'm probably a good example of somebody who likes socializing and intellectual things equally (and oftentimes I find myself combining the two!)</p>
<p>A longtime professor here noted that the academic standards here haven't changed, but that the students have-- they tend to be more involved in pursuits not immediately related to assigned schoolwork, and they are much happier. Nowadays, I think that most people find it pretty easy to be happy at Chicago-- the people who are unhappy here would be unhappy anywhere, their happiness has little to do with how "intellectual" they are.</p>
<p>**</p>
<p>Glasses and J, as long as your children realize that they are stepping into the shark tank, I think they will be okay. Remind them that they don't need to do what they are doing for you to be proud of them.</p>
<p>My parents tend to discourage me from doing anything that detracts from my "college experience" (for which they mean the intersection among academics, social life, and personal well-being). Sometimes I listen to them and sometimes I don't, but when I sign up for something new, I proceed with caution and ask myself if I'll miss whatever I'll need to give up for the new thing.</p>
<p>Thanks unalove. S does know what he's doing, it's just his need to sink deeply into a subject that is pampered at Chicago and it's a set-up for potential overload. The parental point is that he just might not need honors everything in math and science!
He knows he is adored, school is his, we are just the hurricane-proof support.</p>
<p>We are also dealing with this. S1 would like nothing better than to take Honors Analysis, Honors Physics, Human Being and Citizen and Discrete Math with Babai...first quarter. He wants to dive into that pool and soak it all in -- NOW. Glasses, S is happy to forgo his AP Physics placement credit at Chicago to take Honors Physics just to get to play around with the math. Why? "Because my physics class this year [with a MV/DiffEq pre-req] has prepared me to handle it."</p>
<p>We've been talking about all the other transitions that will be taking place this fall. He also knows from CC and his friends currently in Honors Analysis how much work is involved in just that class. He has conceded that Physics, two heavy math classes and a heavy reading class may be pushing it. (ya think?) Instead of Honors Physics, he is now considering the Honors CS class, which should be an interesting course to which he brings a great deal of background.</p>
<p>I'm glad to see the social side of Chicago students being more embraced -- S is not into the partying thing, but he is definitely looking for a social life. However, there is no doubt that the intellectual vibe is the big attraction for him.</p>
<p>I don't know that Human Being and Citizen is really a "heavy reading" class. For a core Hum, it has a remarkably low page-count. Deep rather than wide -- that's part of what's so great about it. </p>
<p>He's going to have to take a Hum anyway. I don't think there's any with less reading than HBC.</p>
<p>My D, a science major who discovered the joys of Spanish at UofC (not a drop of it before starting there!) could not decide which spanish classes to take winter quarter junior year. She was deciding between two upper division undergrad courses and a grad course. She sat in each and liked each so much that she took all three, along with another non-Spanish course and regular lab research.</p>
<p>She survived the experience quite well without any adverse impact on GPA. She also took honors classes whenever she had the chance, and even gave up AP credit for chemistry and biology. Honors O Chem was a piece of work, since she was a rare non-chem major in the class, but she did not miss a beat.</p>
<p>One thing to keep in mind is that UofC, unlike some of its peers, has full time professional advisors for undergrads, in addition to plentiful departmental advisors. The advising can keep the enthusiasm in check, suggest alternatives, prod, motivate, etc. as needed.</p>
<p>One benefit of family weekend especially for first year parents is the chance to meet advisors. They make clear they work for our kids and will not tolerate parental interference, but also put a human face on what can be a key part of our kid's college experience. For example, it was D's advisor that pushed D toward certain scholarships.</p>
<p>Oh my, CountingDown, I hear ya. One big help on campus, may be your son's adviser. The advising has been nothing short of brilliant for my guy.
I know the math and science departments will welcome your S with open hearts and minds.He sounds more intense than my S! The research choices and faculty connections amaze me. Tuition well spent.</p>
<p>x-post with newmassdad--- I obviously echo those thoughts!</p>
<p>S sat in on an HBC section when he visited last fall and really liked it. Also has some friends who have taken it and offered good reviews. He will definitely go for deep over wide.</p>
<p>Here's a question for you veterans: how do the advisors and department advisors coordinate course recommendations? Is it safe to assume that the advisors will have the results of the placement tests by the time students come to register? If one is getting placement out of courses by department approval (not by exam), does that happen before or after meeting one's regular advisor?</p>
<p>Advisors do have all of the placement test information when you first register for classes, I'm not sure about departmental approval though. There are three advisor meetings during O-week, two of which are in large groups that go over the basics of course selection and help you narrow down a possible schedule of courses, then a third that is with you, your advisor, and a registration O-aide who will register you for your fall courses. </p>
<p>Oh, also I think you get back your placement test results in one of the first two meetings with your advisor, so if you need to talk to a department about placement you can do that after you have results back, but before your meeting for actua registration.</p>