Chicago vs. Cornell?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>While we haven’t actually heard yet, grown ups who know what they're talking about and who have read my spawn’s essay(s) think he has a real good chance being accepted to BOTH(!!) Chicago and Cornell. (He has the stats.)</p>

<p>If he was fortunate enough for that to happen, which of the two do the oracles on this board think would provide the best undergraduate experience for a ‘quirky’ math & physics major?</p>

<p>(He got in to his 'safety', Geneseo, and he is making sounds like he'd be happy to go there too, if the above are less than enthralled with the possibility of his attendance.)</p>

2

<p>Well, Chicago might be quirkier overall than Cornell, at least by reputation. But Cornell certainly has its share of math and physics "geeks" and it is closer to your home than Chicago. They are both great for math and physics. Tough call for the person you described as quirky. Can't go wrong either place but Cornell is more prestigious and convenient with math and physics that rival Chicago. It would be a nice to have that choice to make. They are both light years above Geneseo, and Geneseo is the best SUNY.</p>

3

<p>


</p>

<p>I'm not sure why you'd say Cornell is "more prestigious." Chicago is ranked higher in US News (Chicago #8, Cornell #12) and has a higher PA score (Chicago 4.6, Cornell 4.5) which IMO fairly reflects a widespread view among academics that while Cornell is an excellent school, Chicago is one of the most extraordinary collections of pure academic talent in the world. Chicago is a smaller and more intimate school (4,926 undergrads to 13,510 at Cornell) with a better student/faculty ratio (Chicago 6:1, Cornell 10:1), more small classes (72% < 20 students at Chicago, 60% at Cornell) and fewer big classes (4.2% > 50 at Chicago, 16.8% at Cornell). And Chicago's students have generally higher stats (1330-1530 SAT at Chicago, 1290-1500 at Cornell). Both schools are strong in math and physics but US News rates their physics programs almost even (Cornell #7 with a 4.7 rating, Chicago #8 with a 4.6 rating), while it rates Chicago a distinct notch ahead in math (Chicago #6 with a 4.8 rating, Cornell #13 with a 4.3 rating).</p>

<p>Look, I'm not saying this is a clearcut choice. I'm a big fan of Cornell which is an excellent school, and of course it has that Ivy cache. But on pure academics---except for engineering---I think Chicago is stronger, and is recognized as such in the academic world. A lot comes down to personal preferences: small town or big city; quirky-nerdy-highly intellectual (Chicago) or classic well-rounded college experience (Cornell); closer to home (Cornell) or farther afield (Chicago). But don't be gulled by the idea that Ivies are inherently superior. Some schools are, from a purely academic perspective, a little stronger than some Ivies. Chicago v. Cornell is a case in point.</p>

4

<p>Cornell and Chicago, while both great universities are sort of on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of feel. Cornell can be considered rural (although Ithaca itself is quite bustling) and Chicago is urban. Cornell has more of a large school feel and Chicago has more of a niche feel. You are more likely to get a typical college experience at Cornell, than at quirky Chicago (as posters have mentioned above). There is also the different calendar systems you might want to take into account. The quarter system at Chicago (or at most any other school on quarters) is very rigorous and grueling. And the strange calender for quarter systems mean your son will be the last to leave for school, the last to get back, and have short breaks that don't really coincide with schools on semester systems. That scheduling might be rough, especially being far from home when he wants to see his friends at home again who will likely be on a different schedule.</p>

<p>Both schools are extremely prestigious and he is lucky to (hopefully!) be able to choose between both.</p>

5

<p>Chicago was ranked #15 in the 2006 US News report. Jumped 6 spots to #9 in 2007....</p>

<p>Pls don't trust US News report. It is so full of crap.... 6 spots in one year dude... That translate to a 2 point increase due to Chicago's graduation rate going from #21 to #20....</p>

<p>Both Cornell and Chicago are excellent places for math and physics. Chicago may have the advantage in terms of academic reputation in both these areas though physics and astronomy at Cornell is still very highly reputable... Cornell may be more prestigious overall, that I agree with. lol</p>

<p>Pls visit each school and make your own personal choice about it.</p>

6

<p>I'd just like to say this is a great "versus" thread</p>

7

<p>i like chicago better, personally.</p>

8

<p>I spent two years as an undergrad on the quarter system, and two years on the semester system. I found semesters significantly more taxing - more classes at a time, meant more finals to prepare for at the same time, and more material to cover at final's time. (They were comparable schools; one of them was Cornell.)</p>

<p>I'd say this one comes down to where he'd rather spend the next four years, Ithaca or Chicago. Ithaca's a great place to go to college - it's a small town, but (as noted above) a bustling one that really caters to college students. There's really plenty to do there, in a setting with great natural beauty. Chicago's one of the great American cities. If he's looking for a really urban college experience, it's one of the best choices there is. </p>

<p>The schools are far more alike than different academically. He can't really go wrong with either one.</p>

9

<p>I would like to think that although Chicago may be quirkier, Cornell may be more balance and would offer better college experience. But Cornell's weather would be a huge disaster for anyone who hates being in a very, very cold place that snows 4 straight months.</p>

10

<p>"Chicago was ranked #15 in the 2006 US News report. Jumped 6 spots to #9 in 2007....</p>

<p>Pls don't trust US News report. It is so full of crap.... 6 spots in one year dude... That translate to a 2 point increase due to Chicago's graduation rate going from #21 to #20...."</p>

<p>Well, actually UChicago published an article about why they were underranked in the prev years. </p>

<p>Anyway,
Caltech jumped from 9th to 1st in 2000.
Penn jumped from 13th to 7th in 1990.
Cornell jumped from 14th to 6th in 2000.
JHU jumped from 22nd to 10th in 1996 and then jumped from 14th to 7th in 2000.</p>

11

<p>Boy! Thanks for clarifying the distinctions for us (me).</p>

<p>As I gather they are (Chicago / Cornell):
Real urban city vs. small rural ‘city‘;
Small classes vs. bigger classes;
‘Quirky’ classmates vs. ‘typical’ classmates;
(Can anybody at these kind of schools be called typical?)
2 days drive from home vs. same day drive from home;
More theoretical vs. some degree of applied if wanted (engineering schools);
(Both make allowances for double or multiple majors between math & physics.)
4 quarters, with few short courses, vs. semesters, with several longer courses;
(& Bad winter vs. bad winter ;-)).</p>

<p>Both make allowances for double or multiple majors between math & physics.</p>

<p>There is one BIG difference however;
If he gets accepted to Cornell he’d get grants, not loans, and graduate basically debt free.
Unless Cornell has had to change that policy since the market crash. Does anybody know?
We don’t know about Chicago's FA yet.</p>

<p>We would definitely visit Chicago if he’s accepted. We’ve already been to Ithaca.
Thanks to all for listing the differences for us.</p>

<p>Now all he has to do, is actually be accepted!</p>

12

<p>Cornell is committed to keeping its FA the same, even increasing it (broadening might be a better word), despite the economic downturn. </p>

<p>And that drive from Cornell to Chicago is long and boring, having done it myself multiple times. The nice rest stops in Ohio and a 75 mph speed limit in Indiana make it bearable.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]

Well, actually UChicago published an article about why they were underranked in the prev years.</p>

<p>Anyway,
Caltech jumped from 9th to 1st in 2000.
Penn jumped from 13th to 7th in 1990.
Cornell jumped from 14th to 6th in 2000.
JHU jumped from 22nd to 10th in 1996 and then jumped from 14th to 7th in 2000.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>UPenn has somehow became the master at the financial resources section as it skyrocketed to national eminence during the 1990's....</p>

<p>JHU, Cornell, and Caltech skyrocketing in 2000 was partly due to a new USNews director that switched up the methology to ranked colleges more on their research output and contributions to research... She later resigned one yr later after HYP buddies started whining that they aren't among the top 3 :-(</p>

<p>What i'm saying is....I don't think it is right that going from #21 to #20 in graduation rates (like basically an increase of 3-4% in graduation rates should be the difference between a top 15 university and a top 10 university lol....</p>

<p>US News... I don't get it sometimes... It's methology is so random and so objective based lol. It is suppose to measure indicators for quality haha... journalist haha...</p>

14

<p>As I remember, the Caltch-JHU jump in 2000 came from switching from an ordinal scale on per student spending to an absolute scale. Instead of ranking 1,2,3...to 200 something, and giving the #2 school 99.5% (say) of the value of school #1, the #1 school in actual dollar spending per student might be 3 times the spending of school #10. Schools with big spending on scientific equipment per student were boosted.
Both these schools (Chicago and Cornell) are known for top academics, harsh weather, and very hard working students. A study of the Ivy League schools I recently perused at the bookstore (sorry I can't remember the title) listed the number of hours outside of class students reported studying. Cornell's number was the highest, almost an outlier.
You might come back in a couple of weeks with some admissions results.</p>

15

<p>Didn't realize there was a contest to be had here.</p>

<p>Chicago smashes Cornell to pieces in every criteria besides prestige and engineering.
And, if one had to choose solely between the two schools, it's not as if prestige would play that great of a role.</p>

<p>N.B., one cannot "have the stats" for Chicago. It's as peculiarly selective as the LACs when it comes to creating a student body.</p>

16

<p>S chose Chicago over Cornell for math and for him was correct choice. He preferred pure math. Was afraid some of Cornell engineering might bleed into math department. Certainly comes down to feel. Chicago very academic oriented and the students love it that way. S loved Chicago because it was merit based and believed the faculty gave full attention to all students not just the stars. S ended up as a Goldwater scholar and now is working with Harvard Princeton grads who when found out he went to Chicago commented that he at least learned something during his college years.</p>

17

<p>I'm sorry, but the quality of the dialogue going on here is quite poor. I should mention that I am a Cornell alum who had two good friends attend Chicago, has a couple of colleagues who attended Chicago, and has many Cornell friends who are currently doing graduate work in Chicago.</p>

<p>But just a couple of quick points:</p>

<p>1) There is no real difference in the quality of the winters in Ithaca and Chicago. Both are cold and snowy. Chicago will likely be colder, Ithaca likely snowier. Chicago summers will also be a lot hotter. But this decision shouldn't be based on weather.</p>

<p>2) Cornell engineering does not bleed into its Math department offerings. At all. A physics and math major at Cornell will have incredibly rich opportunities to interact with professors, both inside and outside of the classroom. </p>

<p>3) Chicago does not 'own' Cornell in all academic departments, and at the undergraduate level, the differences between the two institutions are too minute to matter much. Either degree will be equally respected.</p>

<p>4) There are many Cornell alums who are very excitable about their undergraduate years -- be it fraternity life or backpacking throughout the Finger Lakes or following the hockey team. Most of the Chicago alums I know hold their undergraduate education in high regard -- but they don't seem to get that twinkle in their eye. Perhaps I just haven't met the right alums, though.</p>

<p>5) I have friends who were physics majors at Cornell who are now doing PhD work at Harvard and Berkeley. I have a friend who was a math major at Cornell and is now doing his PhD at Chicago. (I also have friends who were econ, anthropology, and biology majors at Cornell who are currently at Chicago, but that's besides the point.) All of them are sufficiently happy at their current locales, but none are impressed with the quality of the undergraduate experience at these schools to make them think that they were disadvantaged at Cornell. These large schools are largely on equal footing and the bigger question is to make certain that you find a college setting that is appropriate for you.</p>

<p>6) Which means that the biggest question for you is what type of college environment you would like to find yourself surrounded by. Cornell is big and diverse, with all sorts of different types of people and interests. Chicago is definitely more intellectually and personality-wise homogeneous. You can likely find 4,000 students at Cornell that would feel at home, even thrive, on Chicago's campus, but you will also find 4,000 students who would think that Chicago is the most miserable place on earth. You need to visit each place for yourself to decide.</p>

<p>7) There is one current student from Chicago on these boards who has a lot of familial connections to Cornell -- unalove, I believe. She will likely be a lot more helpful than a lot of the above posters.</p>

18

<p>in the end, it's all about fit. UChicago seems to have an ability to attract some of the quirkiest applicants EVER, and seems to be much more of a study hard, rather than party hard school. Cornell, on the other hand, seems to be more balanced in both aspects.
Both schools offer great academics.</p>

<p>Remember, however, that UChicago has a rigorous Core Curriculum which MAY or MAY NOT turn you off, depending on how flexible you want a school to be. </p>

<p>Other than that, take a look at the architecture. Do you like gothic? Do you like somewhat squished, but hogwartsy throughout? OR would you prefer eclectic, but matching, and somewhat rural with nature all around?</p>

<p>VISIT. Don't just judge based on he-said, she-said and/or USNWR. When you are looking at schools in the top 25, or even top 35 for that matter, it's ALL about fit and where you would feel the most happy.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

19

<p>"Chicago smashes Cornell to pieces in every criteria besides prestige and engineering."</p>

<p>This statement is retarded in so many ways...first of all, prestige is kind of a big deal when youre trying to get hired...second of all, are you saying that chicago has a better hotel school than cornell or a better hockey team or even better food? Youre general, overarching statements make you sound like you still go to junior high...</p>

20

<p>That you use the term "retarded" to express disapproval toward someone makes it seem as if you were still in elementary school. Perhaps you will call me "gay" as a riposte.</p>

<p>There were two implications in my opinion. </p>

<p>First, that the difference in prestige between the two schools is negligible.
Second, that the two schools under comparison are Cornell's College of Arts and Science and UChicago.</p>

<p>Don't have a hernia, kiddo.</p>