<p>woah gambadent----i actually appreciated the kind of atmosphere that the Southside of Chicago and other areas provide--- i am like the adventourous UC student you just mentioned whose experiences in these atmospheres makes them a proponent of social justice--- i was just pointing out a flaming paradox about the nature of UC and its location and issuing a warning to what i thought the average CCer would be like (the starbucks afficionados you mentioned)----(desire for selective school/high test scores/ great GPA/ECs= higher cultural capital, which = higher class)</p>
<p>I spent the summer at the bio research program RIBS and lived on the chicago campus. I have to say that the campus was amazing. I felt like I was in a harry potter movie with all the gothic buildings. Very cool. I also visited Northwestern and I didn't like it. I think the guide said it was started by someone who wanted to escape the "sin and vice of the city" or something like that. I felt that on campus. It is the most pristine, isolated campus I have ever seen. It was so boring. I come from a big city (although Houston doesn't feel like one) and I wanted someplace that was immersed in culture. Northwestern felt like it could have been anywhere in America, but there was no doubt that Chicago was in Chicago. I know that my judgement isn't very objective, but I felt like saying this anyway. Take it as you will.</p>
<p>P.S. With regards to Starbucks drinkers, there will be no problem. There is one just outside of Campus near Pierce. I hated eating at Pierce, but I've heard Bartlett is better. Haven't you people learned that Starbucks is everywhere. Not even dense urban areas are safe anymore.</p>
<p>Ironically, I am applying to both, but leaning towards Northwestern because the film program there is way better than at UChicago. In fact, if I went to UChicago, it would be for Humanities because their courses in it are awesome: Writing Fiction for Television; Emma & Pride & Prejudice, Jane Austen's work; Set Design in Theatre; Screenwriting, etc. good stuff. However, Northwestern has all of that in their respected film program along with good results: Zach Braff, Marg Helgenberger, two SNL alums, Garry Marshall, etc. Plus, I would rather live in the "safer" area of Evanston, IL. than in the middle of Chciago. I mean, didn't anyone see Adventures in Babysitting with Elizabeth Shue? That frat party was for UChicago. However, I do love the gothic architecture. Go Harry Potter!</p>
<p>I am also applying to both (I actually have to get my NW app in...tomorrow :o). However, i have already been accepted at UChicago and there is little that would keep me from going there...it's my parents who are pushing me to apply to NW for more options.</p>
<p>About the locations: I went to the CTD summer program at NW and got pretty familiar with the campus and area then, and I've visited UChicago numerous times. Evanston is, well, pretty glamorous. Lots of great places to eat, higher-end stores, and multiple coffee shops; in fact, it is even a bit TOO upscale for a college town and i can't necessarily see myself living there for 4 years. It's beautiful, and i really like it. But personally, the UChicago campus seems so much better. I <3 the gothic buildings, and how can you beat having dorms like Shoreland? You all are right, it is less pristine and a little more grungy. But, while Hyde Park is no Evanston, it is NOT a bad area, and there are plenty of nice places if you know where to go. With a little in the way of street smarts, it is completely livable in. Perhaps for the more adventurous students... Basically, they both have their pros and cons, and i like them both in their own way.</p>
<p>Also, yes, NW is fantastic for engineering and applied science (UChicago doesn't even have this). BUT, UChicago is EXCELLENT in the natural sciences, especially physics and mathematics. I will most likely be going to UChicago for either neuroscience or physics, and it is a great school for more than just humanities/ss.</p>
<p>The neighborhood at UofC really isn't as bad as you all say. You can come in from the Lake if you really don't want to go through the "projects", and Hyde Park is essentially a bubble in the middle of the south side. The University went through a lot of pains to make it a decent place to live in. </p>
<p>Furthermore, you're about 10 minutes away from downtown -- think of all the culture you'd be missing out by going to Northwestern!</p>
<p>I like the fact that NU has the prettier scenic area with a private beach on Lake Michigan and plenty of trees and such. It's only a 20-minute or so L ride to Chicago where you can catch all the nightlife and the sports and plays, but you don't have to worry about experiencing your own version of Adventures In Babysitting! Chicago is like any other big city where it has its pros and cons. Chicago has some very nice parts to it. Wicker Park for one. The Magnificent Mile is great. But there are other bad parts. The Upper West Side of Manhattan houses celebs and other VIPs, but take a walk through a back alley in NYC, you'll find anything (lol). Or Central Park at night? Yeesh. Forget Detroit. I'm from a suburb of Detroit and I've been down there maybe six times in my whole life. Two baseball games, four field trips, that's it. When the All-Star game was here last summer, and some report came out saying Detroit looked like a bombed-out Baghdad, they weren't joking. Most of Detroit does look that way. It's terrible. The only nice place is the general area surrounding Comerica Park and Ford Field.</p>
<p>UC is a good neighborhood in Hyde Park. Around it is terrible, and going north until you hit Chinatown is also terrible. You <em>can</em> take the L down to Garfield and take the #55 bus over, but I wouldn't. I barely like taking the L to 35TH where I live at IIT (ghetto) - take the Jackson Park Express bus from downtown to 55th St.</p>
<p>i'm bumping this thread up because I'm considering applying to both schools for grad school. I like the fact that Chicago doesn't require teaching and it also ahs a very good linguistics program, however, I think that I may like the environment of Northwestern better. Also, the linguistics program at Northwestern is very flexable. I'm not $$$$$ by any means so I'd have to get a good financial aid offer no matter where I go (if admitted) but if I were admitted to both places, I am not sure which I would choose.</p>
<p>I took that L train for 15 years. </p>
<p>Also, for what it is worth I know an individual just completing a Ph.D. in Linguistics at Chicago, loves it and the department, and has job offers aplenty. Other than that, I know little about the relative merits of each.</p>
<p>The school atmosphere is quite different. One should spend time at both to help decide if that is important. BUT, if linguistics grad school is anything like my grad school experience, one doesn't venture out enough for the campus climate to make much of a difference!</p>
<p>I live in Hyde Park, and the neighborhood it fine. Everyone I know who lives elsewhere in Chicago thinks I will be mugged if I step out of the house. Actually, I have heard that Hyde Park is the second safest neighborhood in Chicago, with only the Loop surpassing it.</p>
<p>Whats the deal with the mugging? It seems like everyone is afraid of Hyde Park...is it really that bad? I'm from New York and I've never been mugged and don't really know anyone who has. I mean I know the city so I know where to go and where not to go, but it's fairly safe. I always though NYC and Chicago would be the same violence wise, am I wrong? Are UChicago kids 'mugged' or whatever more than other people in Chicago? That would make sense because they don't know the area that well and some people haven't lived in a big city...I don't know. Most people on the forums make it seem like Hyde Park is filled with crime and whatnot.</p>
<p>I think we should defer to Katharos on this since she actually lives in the neighborhood. During my tenure at Chicago I was mugged once, NOT in Hyde Park, but on the so-called more upscale Northside (closer to NW actually). Fortunately, I was able to talk them out of doing any harm, since I had no money. I guess the Chicago argument stuff pays off.</p>
<p>Also, we are all missing out on an important detail. If memory fails me not, Columbia is dead-smack in the middle of Harlem, yet I'm sure none of us here would argue that it isn't a very good school. Also, I spent 4 weeks there and felt extremely safe, just like I did at Chicago when I visited for three days. Isn't all this argument a little bit fruitless? The truth is that all universities on this caliber go through painstaking efforts to ensure their students safety, and I am sure that you are as safe at NW as you are at UofC. We should probably spend more time discussing each schools' academic credentials, which, without a doubt, puts UofC at the front</p>
<p>
[quote]
Fortunately, I was able to talk them out of doing any harm, since I had no money. I guess the Chicago argument stuff pays off.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>...this reminds me of a joke.</p>
<p>
[quote]
think of all the culture you'd be missing out by going to Northwestern!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There's a lot of misconceptions about both places. Northwestern's students do not miss Chicago's cultural events at all, they go there all the time, especially on scheduled trips by Residential Colleges. Anyway, both places are great and are suited for different people. Every unsupported and rash generalization that you make about one institution when defending the other, only WEAKENS your argument.</p>
<p>Let me clear up a few misconceptions about u of c and hyde park.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The projects are mostly gone. There are a few still left up by IIT, but they're being torn down and will be gone in a year or so.</p></li>
<li><p>One of the worst ghettos in chicago is sw of u of c about a mile, but pretty well buffered from hyde park. And no hyde parker has any reason to go in that direction.</p></li>
<li><p>There has been some gang activity, including shootings, on the eastern edge of hyde park last year. The area is about a mile from the campus, and pretty far removed from mainstream student life, unless one needed really cheap digs.</p></li>
<li><p>Overall, the environment is like any other urban one. When I do my final dog walk around 11 PM, I often see students walking alone. The streets are well lit and well patrolled. And, the university runs a shuttle bus system for those who want more safety, or to get out of the rain/snow.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>The whole south side of chicago between hyde park and downtown is rapidly changing, with lots of redevelopment going on. Not section 8 stuff, 500,000 condos. Most folks remember the down decades, having no idea of the improvements going on. As a matter of fact, folks now bike ride right through the lakefront neighborhoods just north of hyde park with no fear. The parkland on the lake (lacking in Evanson btw) is heavily used by all kinds of folks.</p>
<ol>
<li> U of C versus Northwestern? atmosphere couldn't be more different. Fashion? Think resale shop versus j crew. Intellectual atmosphere? think real discussion, lots of hard work versus polishing the i banking resume. Social scene? Think small house party (although an apartment party across the street had 250+ before the police came last fall...) versus greek all the way.</li>
</ol>
<p>They/re both great schools, but as different as night and day.</p>
<p>Oh, btw, the only time you can get from NWU to downtown in 20 minutes is when an express train is running, and that won't be when a student wants to go downtown. OTOH, you can be downtown in less than 10 minutes for under three bucks on the METRA. The METRA station is under a ten minute walk through the safest part of hyde park.</p>
<p>To suppliment what I wrote before, Hyde Park is surrounded by bad neighborhoods. The residents of those neighborhoods, though, are never seen in Hyde Park. Hyde Park is a very diverse neighborhood, which is possibly how it got blown up to be "bad."</p>
<p>I frequently walk around at 10, 11, 12 at night. Students are still on the streets, and university phones are positioned strategically around campus if anything comes up. The U. of C., I believe, has the second largest university police force in the country. They patrol the streets day and night; I see them all the time. I feel pretty safe, but I recommend that people walk with a buddy late after dark.</p>
<p>There usually are a panhandler or two on 57th Street, but I walk by them with no problem.</p>
<p>Hyde Park is a fine neighborhood, but, like anywhere in a city like Chicago, it is best to look both ways.</p>
<p>To be fair, there were many students mugged in Hyde Park until they caught the person - he was NOT a resident, he lived on 69TH.</p>
<p>There are lots of projects left - none are in Hyde Park. A lot are by me (IIT)</p>
<p>to address the person who was comparing the crime in NY and Chicago---yes, i would say the crime rates in NY and Chicago are comparable. However, whereas, NY crime is more dispersed throughout the city (wrong place @ the wrong time kind of thing), Chicago's crime is indubitably polarized (Northwestern- North=Safer, Chicago-South=tad more dangerous). So eventhough it seems Chicago and NY have the same rate of crime, in the southside you are in the middle of a high concentration of crime, something that i would not so optimistically say would be like standing in the middle of MLK Blvd. in Anacostia, D.C. in the early 1990's at 1 a.m.---well proabably not that bad</p>
<p>And actually to clear up the myths about IIT, the northern southside is starting (esp. close to the edge of downtown and the lake-not just yet reaching the north of IIT and most definitely not the south of IIT) to gentrify. There are some uber chic apartments and a hyatt at mccormick place that have recently been built. This wave will reach UC a little later.</p>
<p>And that's it i guess I'll stop antagonizing UC. Its a really neat school that fosters an intellectual atmosphere, as opposed to Norhtwestern's carrerism (uC's being personally what i strive for in undergrad. edu), but i can't help smirking and wanting to write bad things about UC simply becuase of the huge paradox that screams out when you visit UC: its a school where 4% of students are african-american and the surrounding neigborhood is proabably liek 87% africanamerican. there is also a even more significant economic discrepancy between the two. perhaps i shouldn't judge though. maybe UC does great things for the neigborhood. I guess they would have to or the obnoxiousness of it all would make the locals want to burn it down.</p>
<p>Nothing south of Roosevelt has really started to gentrify - at the very least not south of 16th. There are still projects there all the way down to 31ST, and definitely west and south of the 35th/Dan Ryan - Bridgeport is the only respite, and it's NOT a good area.</p>
<p>Hyde Park is great. Around it is not. The paradox is there, sure, but is it really better to be NWU in the middle of a white bread yuppie suburb?</p>