<p>Thank you for your clarification. USC has a very broad selection of majors…if your daughter changes her mind then she will be able to. There are so many options there.</p>
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<p>To me, it sounds as though you want her to think more narrowly – that is, to limit herself to schools where vocationally oriented majors are not offered so she can’t pick them.</p>
<p>My bias (an agenda, I confess) is that college is for intellectual exploration and growth, not for vocational training. This clearly has to do with my own experience (went to college, took four years off while I figured out what I wanted to do. So I worry that she is making a decision based on a very narrow criterion which could very well change.</p>
<p>as I suggested earlier, you can relax. USC has more than enough “room” for intellectual exploration- even for the most gifted students.</p>
<p>DS’s friend began his college career at USC not exactly sure of what he wanted to major in. He changed majors numerous times during his first 2 years there, sampling from many different areas- History, English, moved over to Math, then Physics, and finally found the area that captured his intellectual attention fully- computational Neuroscience- all at USC as an UG. He is now at Oxford on a Churchill Fellowship [one of the 16 awarded in the US] , before beginning grad school at Columbia.
My son has just started his PhD at Caltech in Geophysics. His roommate has just started his PhD in EE at MIT. And the Val of their class has started Med school at Harvard [on a full fellowship].</p>
<p>Just to provide clarity, which particular college do you think would be better for your D than USC and why do you think it provides something that’s unattainable at USC?</p>
<p>If your D isn’t applying ED, then May is a long way a way. It’s entirely possible that come May she may have her heart set on a different school. (Or maybe she won’t be accepted). </p>
<p>My parents let me make my own decision about which college to attend. The school I choose at 18 ended up not being a great fit for me, so I transferred a school that is a much better fit. I learned so much from making the decision to attend the “wrong” school. (I don’t recommend going into the process with the intention of transferring, but for me, I can say that my decisions “worked out” in the end).</p>
<p>Holy cow. Since when is pursuing “art, video games, fantasy, and manga” and a possible minor in 2-D art vocational training? It may not be masterpieces of 19th century literature or modern political thought, but if the goal is intellectual exploration-- well, you have either passed that philo on to her and she will takes some of those classes- or not. USC is not a trade school.</p>
<p>She won’t get a mere certificate. To graduate with a BA/BS or BFA, she’ll have to fulfill “general ed requirements.” If any of those pique her intellectual curiosity, she may even change her mind about digital art. Or, is there something different about gen eds for art majors?</p>
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<p>Wow! You and I share the same ideals regarding the purpose of an undergraduate education! However, there’s nothing that precludes your D from intellectual exploration and growth at USC…especially nowadays. </p>
<p>Encourage her to take courses in many different areas in her process of finding a major/fulfilling distribution requirements…within reason. Sounds like she could take courses in Art(Especially graphic arts), Lit, East Asian/Japanese studies, Computer Science, and History just for starters. Couch the conversation as encouraging her to treat this as a fascinating adventuresome game in itself. In some ways, that’s how I treated my own undergrad education with great results…especially considering how I courses in almost every one of those fields…except Art. </p>
<p>Granted, I may be biased as I graduated as a History major(Concentrations in US and Chinese history with some Japanese history thrown in) with minors in East Asian Studies(China and Japan) and politics(US and China) along with taking two CS courses for majors with labs due to a combination of interest and fulfilling my science requirements. :)</p>
<p>OP, be happy your D has such a strong interest and direction. Some do not. There are core requirements. And she can also minor in another subject if she wishes.</p>
<p>My son is a junior at USC majoring in tv/film production, which I guess some might view as “vocational.” But in the two years before he could begin his main classes in his major, USC required many other courses that led him into a great deal of intellectual exploration–a new foreign language, linguistics, oceanography and more. This is one reason why we viewed it as his ideal school–it combined his passion with a strong university education. Not the case with some other schools.
I am not sure on your worries about the social fit but if you think it is all Greek, that’s not the case. My son did not pledge and has many friends in and out of frats and sororities. His girlfriend is in a sorority in fact. It’s also definitely not all rich kids. He’s certainly not!</p>
<p>“She thinks she might like to work in the video game industry some day. My bias (an agenda, I confess) is that college is for intellectual exploration and growth, not for vocational training.”</p>
<p>Think back over what your daughter has said about her career goals over the past few years. Some people her age do know what they want to do - which is amazing to those of us who didn’t and who changed majors multiple times in college and/or careers multiple times after college. Happykid has been very clear about what she wanted to study since the middle of high school. While her specific focus within that career pathway has become better defined over time, she has not wavered one bit from that path.</p>
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<p>I don’t understand these young people, either. But as a graduate of Cornell, which attracts students who have already committed themselves at 17 to careers in such fields as hotel administration, architecture, or fashion design – I have met many of them. They seem quite sane, and a reasonable proportion of them stay in the major they originally intended.</p>
<p>My own kids also knew exactly what they wanted to major in before they went to college and never deviated from those choices. But in their cases, the majors were a bit broader – computer science for one and economics for the other – which is a somewhat different situation. Neither knew as a freshman what he or she would be doing after graduation.</p>
<p>The original question was about a college- now it seems the concern is the major-? All the more reason to go to a big, vibrant university like USC. Really great digital artists, btw, can do quite well in the future. </p>
<p>My D1 has also known since mid-hs what she wanted to study, is immersed in that now- but also taking plenty of other stimulating classes (and some not so great.) D2 changed her ideas and is so happy to be exploring other subjects. I think most of us try to encourage them to include some variety and then we hope our lessons sunk in.</p>
<p>In general, when it comes to social atmosphere, the kid will be a better judge than the parent. I would only be worried if the kid had a long history of biting off way more than he could chew.</p>
<p>I was thinking about the “money card”–the idea that the parent is paying, and thus should have input (control?) over the decision. My reaction to this is that the parent shouldn’t play this card to counter a decision by the student, even if the parent thinks it’s not the best choice. But–what if the parent thinks its a REALLY bad choice? I think there are colleges that I simply wouldn’t pay for if my kids wanted to go there. There was another thread in which the kid wanted to go to an unaccredited small religious school at the urging of some adult outside the family. In that situation, I thought the parents would be justified in saying, “If he wants you to go there so badly, let him pay for it.”</p>
<p>As a practical matter, I would assume that most parents would have had whatever discussion about particular colleges at the application stage, assuming that the kid doesn’t have the funds to pay the application fees on his own. Any college for which the parents supply the application fee should be within the realm of acceptability to the parent. </p>
<p>I do think that the parents of students who are not paying the bulk of the tuition bill may feel more lax about leaving the entire decision to the child. When the $200K+ total nut is coming out of one’s bank account, most fiscally responsible parents will have an opinion about value for the money. I think it is very important for kids to learn about good value, as well as learn to make responsible decisions when spending other people’s money.</p>
<p>If my child were admitted to San Diego State as her safety and Yale as her reach, I would probably not allow her to choose SDSU if I am paying. I can’t imagine any reasonable argument in favor of choosing SDSU over Yale. If she only got into SDSU and like colleges, I’d pay for her to go.</p>
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<p>That’s exactly how I feel. As my kids developed their lists, there was only one college on it that fell into the camp of “Yes, we’ll pay for this over State U if it’s the only place you get in, but if you get into this and any of the other schools on your list, we’d have a hard time paying for this over the other schools.” It was a school that was ranked appreciably lower than the others – in the 70 range versus others that were in the 10-30 range. I don’t believe 30 is appreciably lower than 20, that type of thing - but I do believe 70 is appreciably lower than 30, and enough to make me not want to pay for it unless there is some other compelling reason such as a program available nowhere else.</p>
<p>^ Frankly, at that point, I might let my kid choose one school over an Ivy, IF it satisfied needs in her major to a degree I felt was enough. (Our standards are pretty high, btw.) If the geographics (travel expense and convenience) and other issues worked. Sure, I’d hold my breath- but, she could be choosing a particular set of profs, internship realities in her sub-field or whatever. And, she may not want the level of drive and competition required at the Ivy. Cost would have to be equal.</p>
<p>Or, maybe I just think I’d have that courage.<br>
More important, the vetting has to be done before the apps go out. That’s critical. And, the discussions about paying, IMO, should take place quite early in the game. As mentioned, we told her from the get-go, that even a “dream” school had to meet our ideas about affordability.</p>
<p>Btw, at this stage, what if OP’s kid doesn’t even get into USC?</p>
<p>My d LOVED USC from the moment she toured the school. I admit I pushed (just a little) for her to seriously consider other options too. Mostly from a misinformed worry that the area was not safe. It is. She is an analytical person by nature and did her due diligence. She applied to 9 or 10 universities and was accepted to all but one. USC had the major she wanted. We left this choice to her. She has been so happy there it is heartwarming. USC has heart. The students are diverse, supportive and are close. The alumni closeness and pride is legendary. She worked her butt off in hs and earned merit $. The cost of attendance for us is close to CA state U’s. She is receivig a first-rate education! </p>
<p>Obviously, tuition costs are a serious consideration for each family particular to their situation. For us, her education and personal happiness are paramount. She hasn’t always made the decisions I would, but I love who she is. She’s a smart cookie and made a very wise decision when she chose her college. If it had turned out to be a mistake, she could have transferred.</p>
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<p>There are plenty of schools I would have let my kid choose over an Ivy, because Ivies aren’t the be-all and end-all of human existence, and there are plenty of excellent schools. They are just 8 of the top schools, and all very fine institutions. I don’t know where all this weirdness and over-elevation of them comes from. If my kid was choosing between, oh, say Brown and Vanderbilt, or Dartmouth and Duke, or Penn and Northwestern, I don’t know what the “Ivy-ishness” of B, D and P would have to do with the decision overall, since we’re all talking about essentially peer schools. CC is incredibly weighted towards the small % of the population who holds the Ivies up as the second coming, and it’s very odd. As I’ve said before, throw the top 20 or so universities into a pile; assuming finances are the same, make the pick on personal preference, you’ll do just fine. But if the kid gets into a school that’s now at 50 or 60, yes, I think there has to be some compelling reason such as a major not available elsewhere to choose that one. I agree with oldfort that ratings matter, to a point – I just don’t go for the splitting-hairs-at-high-levels that others do.</p>
<p>Adding to my #95, if my D wanted to go to USC over Yale, I would pay for that, even though I think Yale is a better choice academically. USC has a lot to offer and is actually in a similar urban situation as Yale. It has a huge social scene, athletics scene and alumni network, all of which are very appealing to lots of students. Around here, USC has a reputation as a USNWR rankings “whore,” but that is not necessarily a bad thing.</p>