<p>Well, it seems that the OP is saying that in her opinion, USC is not a good fit for her D except for the very specific presence of this minor opportunity. I think that’s a reasonable concern–the question is what to do about it. To me, the answer is to discuss it with D and ask her to consider pros and cons. She still might choose it–and since it’s USC, and not U of Nowhere, it’s not going to be a terrible choice even if she concludes that it’s where she really wants to go.</p>
<p>Agree with Pizzagirl. I also have a lot of close-hand reports on the USC Greek system and it is intense. Menlo has more familiarity with the school, of course, but I have posted before that the mere percentage of students involved with the Greek system is NOT a good indicator of how the school really feels “Greek-wise”. My son found that out at Penn. While the percentage didn’t look big, it really dominated freshman year, and those not involved felt the impact. It’s just something to keep in mind- not necessarily a deal-breaker, but USC has a huge reputation as a big “Greek” school, and it is a well-founded reputation.</p>
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<p>“No worse / no more intense than at big SEC schools” is called damning with faint praise. That’s basically “no worse than other over-the-top places” and I’d want my kid to suss that out completely before committing to one of those schoos, too. I also agree with MOWC that the % of a campus that is Greek is really not the best definer of how intense the system is. A campus could be more Greek than that precisely because it’s low-key and there’s a place for everyone who wants to join.</p>
<p>“but USC has a huge reputation as a big “Greek” school, and it is a well-founded reputation.”
when 75% of students join frats or sororities, then you can call it a big greek school. A la Dartmouth. When 75% don’t join, I think that’s a huge stretch. The hysteria by some girls over how competitive sorority selection may well be, for those who are interested in joining, has nothing to do with how much an influence the Greek system has overall on the other 75% of students there. It has very little influence at USC these days, and every year it becomes even more irrelevant to most students, who face it, are not from the East or have an ongoing family tradition of going greek. </p>
<p>Today’s USC, with its extremely diverse student population-[less than 39% are white] is very different from the USC of 20 years ago. Most students at USC these days care little or nothing about Greek socialites. The numbers of students who dont join are proof of that.</p>
<p>With some fairly swift changes, USC’s reputation of old (ten years ago and earlier) does not yet reflect the radical changes in the student body makeup these days. In addition, the talent-based schools/majors tend to attract a different culture of student by nature of the creative endeavors they pursue. I smile to think of the OP worrying her D may have marketable skills at the end of UG and jobs lined up before graduation, assuming she continues her love of computer game design and art. But, as has been mentioned, there are numerous rigorous majors and a wonderful GE honors program on top of that for those who enjoy the highest challenge.</p>
<p>As for the Greek scene at USC, there are 2 different issues being discussed. 1) The intensity of rushing/pledging finding a compatible house. Those with inside experience seem to agree that not being selected to a favored house is very hard on those who have their heart set on one or two–whether at USC or anywhere. I believe the school’s panhellenic organization guarantees all women going through rush will be offered at least one house. Some do not care for this choice, and I have definitely heard of stories where hard feelings were very very hard indeed. The most desirable houses are competitive and rejection sucks. If the OP is concerned her daughter wants to be part of Greek life, but worries USC’s version is too intense and potentially heartbreaking, that is a valid concern. No one can guarantee a young woman will get into the sorority she most covets–and at USC, as many private U’s, the criteria can be subjective.</p>
<p>2) The pervasive feeling on campus that everyone is Greek. Poster after poster here (including parents and students on campus right now) do not see it this way. The numbers do not see it this way. If OP’s daughter has little interest in pledging a sorority and OP is somehow worried the campus is overrun with Greek students (not her kid’s cup of tea), I join the chorus to say this is just (perhaps lingering old reputation?) not the truth at all. With about 3/4 of all undergrads independent of Greek life, not to mention the huge number of social, cultural and internship opportunities available around L.A. there is not a feeling of that subculture dominating the really vibrant campus.</p>
<p>That’s not what current students at USC tell me. Again -not a deal breaker. But every college - every single one - has something about it that you have to go in with your eyes open to, and for USC, it’s that college’s physical location in a less-than-desirable neighborhood and an intense Greek system. That’s all. That doesn’t make it not a fine choice; it just means those things need to be vetted. EVERY school has things about it that need to be vetted by the student - whether it’s the neighborhood / locale, a certain reputation, an emphasis or lack of emphasis on big-time sports, whatever.</p>
<p>"That’s not what current students at USC. "
Again the current students you know are involved in the Greek system, correct? They are in the minority these days. It may be intense to them, but has little influence on most USC students. </p>
<p>I would not presume to declare what student life is like at Penn or Vanderbilt or any other college my child did not go to, based on conversations I had with a few students who attend those universities.
The Op should open her eyes a bit and trust her D. She will hundreds of academic majors to choose from, should she be admitted to USC.</p>
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<p>Both those who are, and those who aren’t.</p>
<p>Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think it’s OP who brought up the Greek issue. </p>
<p>I have to wonder: OP hasn’t mentioned here that her dau is qualified for a competitive art or games design program. Is this a wild dream or a logical next-step? That’s a big question. </p>
<p>If she is a complete newbie, she may not cut it in this arena. She may find the experience peers have or the wealth of design ideas they have far outpace hers. Would she be applying to Roski (the school of fine arts) or Viterbi or what?</p>
<p>OP again. Pizzagirl is right - I have negative feelings about the Greek scene and concern about the neighborhood. My daughter, by her own admission, is “nerdy,” with no interest in fashion, parties, etc. She loves art but is not a “hipster.”</p>
<p>In regard to her artistic abilities, she is quite talented and plans to apply to Roski.</p>
<p>There’s a funny thing about the Greek system.</p>
<p>On a campus where the Greek system is a significant presence, you will often hear kids say that if you’re not Greek, you will have no life, with nothing to do and no friends.</p>
<p>The kids who say this are invariably part of the Greek system. </p>
<p>The kids who are not in the Greek system and who never had any desire to be in the Greek system do not look at things this way. In most instances, they couldn’t care less about fraternities and sororities. They have lives that center around other things and other people. And in most of the cases I know of, they have plenty to do and plenty of friends.</p>
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<p>Absolutely!</p>
<p>OP…I would try to put your anxiety aside and simply relax. Assuming it’s financially viable, let her apply to USC and wait until the spring when she receives her letters. Chances are, she may not even be accepted. Admissions are unpredictable, and you never know what can happen. USC has around a 24% acceptance rate. I know a kid who got into Vandy and Cornell but not USC. My point is cross this bridge in April if and when you come to it. Good luck!</p>
<p>Knowing plenty of art students here, I have to wonder how many at big ol’ USC are interested in Greek life. The ones I know tend to band togther based on their non-Greek mentality.</p>
<p>All this reminds me of the great acronym, GDI. I am sure USC has plenty of them. I would be more worried about a kid who wanted or needed the Greek system to lean on and wasn’t quite a match. That kid could be left out. Not, imo, an artist sort.</p>
<p>^ And figure out, fast, what her alternative schools are, in case she doesn’t get into USC.</p>
<p>Marian, some campus cultures have a live and let live attitude towards Greek life and it serves the function of any other club - you want to be in it, great; you don’t want to, that’s cool too. In other campus cultures, Greeks do dominate campus life and there is a real us vs them mentality and it’s in your face. Either of these situations can occur if a campus is (say) 25% Greek, because it’s not the percent, it’s the attitude. Look, I’m a Greek booster from my own perspective - but I went to a school that’s “chill” on that dimension. Everything I hear about USC says it’s very different and more like SEC schools. That’s something a student needs to walk into with eyes wide open, IMO.</p>
<p>Looking forward - I agree. In fact, I think a girl who wasn’t conventionally pretty and wanted a Greek system could be very hurt at USC.</p>
<p>Here’s a simple test for determining if the Greek scene dominates the campus: ask students what you call people who aren’t in a fraternity and sorority. If they look back blankly, then the Greek scene doesn’t dominate.
If they say “independents,” then it might dominate.
If they say “GDI,” take a close look.</p>
<p>I’m kidding, kind of. It is, perhaps, a test of whether Greeks are just like any other clubs or not.</p>
<p>Great observation and so very true. IMO, people don’t call themselves GDI (except maybe in jest) unless there is some level of annoyance or resentment of the Greek system.</p>
<p>I’m afraid to ask - what does “GDI” mean?</p>
<p>But, there is a huge difference between, say, a Hamilton, which has had to shut down frats a few times, and USC, which is larger, in an urban area, has graduate schools, has highly respected engineering, business and creative studies (cinema, emerging media and whatever else,) a big football culture, extraordinary diversity, and on and on.</p>
<p>You may get Greek-fatigue, sure. But, you have plenty of opps to carve out your own niche. Every week, there are multiple cultural, social and intellectual events to choose among, multiple clubs and engagement opps- its not a rural school of 2000 where, you choose from the Greek parties, the library or sitting in your room.</p>
<p>And, OP has said her dau is a qualified artist.</p>
<p>GDI = God Damned Independent. A badge worn with pride, by many.</p>
<p>ps. I did grad work at UCLA and never thought I’d be defending USC, ha.</p>
<p>According to USC’s own website, 3500 students are Greeks.</p>