choice of schools for probable History major

Parents Forum
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<p>Senior D2 and I are investigating colleges in west/ east. We live in calif, and will apply to UCLA, UCB, UCSD, UCI (UCi and UCSD are most likely "admits/safeties"). She is ELC because she is ranked top 4% in her high school (ELC grants her auto-admit to an UC school) and has enough points to be accepted to UCSD according to UCSD's "formula". </p>

<p>Daughter also wants to apply out of state to schools east of Ohio, we have said Ok as long as it doesn't cost more than an UC school would cost -approx $22,000/year total for tuition and Room/board.</p>

<p>D has 1500 SAT (740 math and 760 reading), 4.3 GPA weighted, 3.85 unweighted. Aps: scored 4 US hist, 5 Eng lit, 5 calculus, 4 Euro History, 2 chem (chem Ap was taken soph year). SAT Subject 2 test scores: Math 710, Lit 790, US Hist 680. </p>

<p>Active in highest level choral group (she goes to a magnet fine arts high school, and there are 6-7 choral groups --hers is by audition only) , dance company, volunteers at local library, active in church (youth orchestra, teaching sunday school, etc). Ranked 12/432 in class, commended National Merit scholar. Does plays and musical theatre.</p>

<p>D is interested in colleges/universities with student population 4,000 - 19,000. She would like it to be near a bigger city ( although doesn't have to be urban), and not too liberal (doesn't have to be conservative, though). </p>

<p>Probable major English, and she intends to pursue a law degree afterwards. D1 goes to Baylor on full tuition scholarship, which D2 says is way too "in the sticks" for her.</p>

<p>We are interested in schools with scholarships, so that probably means tier 2 schools eg ranked 50 - 75 in US News rankings. We do not qualify for need based aid, so she is not looking at Ivy league type schools.</p>

<p>D2 was looking at College Board suggestions last night, and I figured that my fellow CCers would have just as good suggestions as what she can find on College Board. </p>

<p>I would appreciate your thoughts/suggestions.</p>

2

<p>Just for the fun of it and because it's easy, she might want to apply to UCD, UCSC, and UCSB also and see if she ends up with a Regent's scholarship at one of them (pays approx. tuition + books). I don't know if this would influence the decision. If she ends up considering UCSC make sure she evaluates it closely for her preference of "not too liberal" (it might not qualify).</p>

3

<p>William & Mary comes to mind, though it's not near any city.</p>

4

<p>Make sure she opens up the course offerings for the schools she researches. There is a vast difference in the depth of offerings. Bigger universities have deeper offerings--and opportunities for grad level classes in junior and senior year.</p>

<p>Frankly, she will find amazing faculty in hundreds of institutions. My personal theory is that a student can't lose by attending school in cities favored by academics; cities like Boston, Washington, New York and San Francisco.</p>

<p>Check the Merit Aid thread. Check the honors programs--or university professor's programs at schools like NYU and BU.</p>

5

<p>cheers and everyone;</p>

<p>I was told NYU is skimpy with merit aid...any truth to that? Some colleges we were looking at (that CollegeBoard said was a "good fit") include Clemson, and Villanova. Also the merit thread mentioned Case Western, emory and vanderbilt ( however, I think I read Emory and Vanderbilt were less generous with merit aid)</p>

<p>Where is Williams and Mary -- sorry, since we are Californians, we are not as familar with east coast/southern schools as you Easterners are.</p>

<p>I think D wants to major in history, in orig post I mentioned history and then also mentioned English.</p>

6

<p>W & M is a smallish-to-midsized (7K undergrads) public school in Williamsburg, Virginia. It's the second-oldest campus in the nation and, as it's adjacent to Colonial Williamsburg, a sense of history permeates the place. The campus is quite lovely, and history is a strong major there. If you check out the CC board on W & M, you'll see that admission is highly selective, especially for out of state applicants. By statute, only 35 percent of students can be from out of state. The nearest larger cities are Richmond (almost an hour away) and DC. Norfolk is closer but difficult to get to (traffic)! There's almost no merit aid (I believe 4 full-tuition scholarships annually for walk-on water type of kids), but the cost of attendance is quite a bit less than at a private school.</p>

<p>Another school that might fit her criteria (up to 19K students, near a larger city) is the University of Pittsburgh, which has an outstanding history department.</p>

7

<p>I second frazzled's suggestion of the University of Pittsburgh. From what I have seen, a SAT score like your daughter's would qualify her for a full-tuition scholarship, entry into the Honors College, and an invitation to compete for the Chancellor's Scholarship (full-ride). This is just based on my own observations, though, not anything Pitt has said officially. My daughter is attending on a full-tuition scholarship.</p>

8

<p>If she doesn't mind the cold, University of Rochester - and it doesn't really get that much colder in Rochester, NY than it does in Pittsburgh. UR has excellent scholarship opportunities, and she may be eligible for a Renaissance scholarship - full tuition. She can also take classes and continue her voice studies at the Eastman School of Music, which is part of the University, should she so desire.</p>

<p>Brandeis University, just outside Boston, also offers good merit aid and is excellent in both English and history. Although the scholarships are merit-based, Brandeis does require submission of the CSS Profile for consideration for those scholarships.</p>

<p>Boston University could also be an option, although it is larger than she indicated and doesn't have a real "campus feel." I know a couple of kids who are going there on full tuition scholarships.</p>

9

<p>I would extend Cheers' comments. In history, you probably couldn't find a LAC or large university that wouldn't have a good department. Not all those Harvard, Stanford, and Duke PhDs can find work at Harvard, Stanford, and Duke -- they end up teaching at Cal State Chico, SUNY Stony Brook, and Central Florida. At the undergraduate level the teachers won't be the difference. You'll find great faculty practically anywhere. (That is, if "great" means "comes from a highly-ranked" school. I've found that personal reputation and teaching competence are almost entirely unrelated.)</p>

10

<p>You can go practically anywhere and get a good overall education in history. If you want a specific area say: US including Modern, African-American, Southern, Colonial, Western, Immigration, 19th Century or Civil War; Russian; European; Medieval; Ancient; Southeastern Asian; African, Latin American; and the list is endless you will need to do a deeper search. Look not only at the course offerings and professors but check the libraries especially for manuscript sources.</p>

<p>Loved history. Great major.</p>

11

<p>Some of this depends on what your child wants to do with a history degree. Law school? Just about any school will do (in terms of history). A Ph.D. in history? Then you want to be more particular. Make sure the history department isn't a "service" department. (The size of the faculty of the history department as compared to other departments is a tip-off.) If your child has a particular interest in history (Russian, Ancient, etc.) make sure there is appropriate faculty AND appropriate language courses available. </p>

<p>There are lots of great history departments at schools of various size all over the US. I'd say look at schools in general first, narrow them down, then make sure they have an appropriate history department for your child's needs.</p>

12

<p>Look for noted scholars in the specialization that interests your child; Skip Gates [African-American] at Harvard or Kenneth Jackson [American Industrializatin/urbanization] at Columbia, for example. And I agree, don't focus on just the Ivy League. Many southern schools have have very good American History and Constitutional History programs.</p>

13

<p>William & Mary does indeed have a wonderful history program, but its cost for an OOS student comes in at well over 22K. With room and board and travel expenses, it would be closer to 35K.</p>

14

<p>My neice got a substantial merit offer from W&M as an out of state student. She was a USAToday Scholar--but your D is pretty darned strong. My niece loved it.</p>

<p>W&M has a strong history dept because of it's location--near Washington.</p>

15

<p>Usually I don't chime in to promote my own school, but if you're considering all those UC's, why not consider USC as well? They give lots of merit scholarships and at the same time are much higher up(27?) than ~50-75 in US news.</p>

<p>I forget what they give to national merit finalists, but I think it's at least half tuition. Plus with those stats she could be eligible for Thematic Option, which is the honors general education/liberal arts sequence.</p>

16

<p>cheers, was your niece offered one of the four Murray Scholar awards? As far as I know (and I've looked a lot), those are the most generous merit-based scholarships at W & M. Murray Scholars are similar to Jefferson Scholars at UVA, though the Jefferson is more generous. From the W & M website:</p>

<p>"Endowed by a multi-million dollar alumni gift, the Murray Scholars Program will provide four students per year (with plans to expand to eleven per year) with extensive benefits, including partial payment of their tuition. Virginia high schools and select out-of-state schools may nominate individuals to apply for this honor. In conjunction with the Office of Undergraduate Admission, faculty members at the College will administer the selection process, which will include an interview phase for finalists."</p>

<p>There are two other scholarships mentioned on the W & M site. The W & M Scholars program is available to 20-25 entering freshmen who will bring diversity to the campus. The value is 4 years of instate tuition and fees. The other isn't really a scholarship in my mind (though who am I to question W & M?) as much as it's a stipend. The Monroe Scholars program is offered to less than 10 percent of accepted freshmen and provides some nice perks, including a study grant of $3K for an independent summer project. No additional funds, though.</p>

<p>While some excellent public schools do indeed have very high price tags for oos students (UVA, W & M, UM), $35K annually is more affordable than the $50K plus that private schools are edging toward - or even exceeding.</p>

17

<p>Thank you for all the suggestions. I really do appreciate it. D2 and I are busy now looking at all the schools. </p>

<p>As for USC, yes I know it is a wonderful school, however at best they usually only give 1/2 tuition. </p>

<p>2 years ago, D1 was a NMF and got only 1/2 tuition --and at that time 1/2 was $16,000. We couldn't afford paying the other half plus room and board, (or about $28,000 even with 1/2 tuition). D1 loved the feel of USC, though.</p>

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<p>USC Has a substantial number of full tuition scholarships.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Trustee</p>

<p>Amount: Full tuition (approximately $35,800)</p>

<p>Number of Awards: 100</p>

<p>Selection Criteria: For entering freshmen only. Candidates are selected by USC faculty and staff from an extremely competitive international pool. Applicants pursue the most demanding curriculum and achieve at the highest level. Average SAT and ACT scores are in the top 1–2 percent of all students nationwide. In addition to academic criteria, candidates’ talent, involvement and leadership are considered.</p>

<p>Application Process: Freshmen must submit a completed 2008 Undergraduate Application with required materials by Dec. 10, 2007. An interview is required for finalist candidates. Candidates selected for an interview will be contacted by the Office of Admission in February.</p>

<p>Notification: By April 1, 2008

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/sg/entering_undergrad_meritbased/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/sg/entering_undergrad_meritbased/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Plus they give out lots of need-based aid.</p>

<p>Disagree with you Cheers. CWM is not really near DC. It's two and half to three hours away and 160 miles or so. Its strength in history has traditionally been in US Colonial because of it location near Historic Williamsburg not because of it location "near" DC.</p>

19

<p>And there is non-stop heavy traffic from Richmond north, and perpetual construction around the Beltway. There's a reason we don't take I-95 heading south to my parents!</p>

<p>But yeah, TSdad is right on about why W&M is strong in history. It's a school that DS2 will seriously consider, because of the history dept. and their enviro sci program.</p>

20

<p>You are the area expert tsdad, but from an academic's point of view, CWM has easier access to DC than say, Austin or Lawrence or Los Angeles. I have friends who recruit for faculty for a top 25 school and they would eat worms for the CWM location. As it is, they have great difficulty tempting academics to their location. That has to be true in Wisconsin as well.</p>