<p>Seems like you guys(esp the OP) are straying away from the facts and basing things on your emotions.</p>
<p>I will be damed to find a Dell with an iSight/iChat AV built in equivalent. I just really don't see why so many hate Macs here. Mac OS X (and Macs in general) is not that big of a deal... people treat it like it's the devil or something.</p>
<p>I think it's because so many are used to the old iMac G3s in high school running OS 9.</p>
<p>To be honest, I don't want to just present the facts. The facts can be found anywhere on the internet. I wanted this thread to be full of personal experiences so that the reader could get a different point of view from different types of users. If you feel differently than me -- speak up. But don't bash my opinions. What I've presented in facts are all true. But my opinions are just that: opinions.</p>
<p>As for the Apple haters claiming that there is nothing special about an Apple Computer ... You've never owned a Mac, obviously. Apple Computers are designed specifically for Mac OS X. What this means is you get the thing KNOWING that it will work perfectly, and run smoothly. Can you say the same about your Windows Notebook? Not unless Microsoft starts making them, and that ain't going to happen folks. :)</p>
<p>Afruff23: I didn't see your post at first, sorry. Again, I'll point out that it is completely illegal to run OS X on anything but Apple Hardware. </p>
<p>Cheers,
Alex</p>
<p>Alex: Be careful in how you write off Linux. Granted, most people who use it won't need your advice on computers anyways, but given the market share numbers (5% market share for Mac) it's easy to say that nobody cares about Mac. ;)</p>
<p>As to Apple hardware being up to date: it may be, but it's still too expensive. I never said it wasn't up to date - although even the most powerful Macs pale in comparison to what an enthusiast can put into a PC given unlimited access to parts. When comparing on a price basis though, you don't get as much bang for your buck with a Mac - thus my comment about aethetics. With worse performance for money, and not actually significantly better build quality than a good PC, the only reason I can see for the hardware choice itself is aesthetics (assuming OS choice is taken out of the equation, which I recognize it isn't for most people, although it is for me, since I "illegally" can get MacOS for PC :P).</p>
<p>1of42:</p>
<p>Linux has less market share than OS X, so if no one cares about Mac ... What does that say about linux? Exactly.</p>
<p>Again, this is a college board. No-one here is going to need a computer with unlimited access of parts. Even if they did, a Mac Pro would be just as fast(not as advanced in hardware, but just as fast all the same) as any PC you could build, they come with 8 core CPUs now.</p>
<p>Unless you are a motion picture or animation studio, who needs 8 cores? Who needs unlimited access to parts? Sure, you're locked down to the hardware you get with your Mac, but that hardware will always run well with OS X. So what's the point in upgrading? RAM? There's a door on every Mac that allows this to be very easily upgraded.</p>
<p>When posting, please remember the context of this thread. It's meant toward college students, not l33t ubber animators that need a machine that can render two hour scenes.</p>
<p>Yes, Macs are very expensive and you get what you pay for.</p>
<p>Cheers,
Alex</p>
<p>Yeah, that was my point. You either have to admit that Linux is a player in this discussion, since you're spending so much time talking about MacOS (a very small player in terms of market share) or you have to say that no one cares about either.</p>
<p>I dispute your statement that no one needs to be able to upgrade. How about computer science majors, or people who run very intensive simulation programs (engineers...?), powerful design programs, and so on? Most of those people would say they want to be able to upgrade, as would I. That Macs can't is a severe deficiency.</p>
<p>As for PCs not working smoothly without troubleshooting - mine all do. It just takes a little bit of a brain for your stuff to work perfectly without any issues, right from assembly (or unpacking, if you're buying them).</p>
<p>Here's the thing. You seem to be assuming that your standard college student doesn't know anything about computers, and doesn't want to learn. I disagree with that. I suppose, if you really want to put it that way, we could just say this:</p>
<p>Don't want to have any options for future modification? Don't want to have to think when choosing/setting up your computer? Don't feel like ever having to use your brain at all? Then a Mac is the computer for you.</p>
<p>...but that's a little pejorative, don't you think? Nonetheless, it's similar to what you've been saying.</p>
<p>It takes a LOT of work to keep Windows happy. Macs are made for design programs, engineering programs and so forth. That's why it's an industry standard in the design feild. :) Simulations? I already adressed animations and gaming, that falls under that catagory.</p>
<p>"Don't want to have any options for future modification? Don't want to have to think when choosing/setting up your computer? Don't feel like ever having to use your brain at all? Then a Mac is the computer for you."</p>
<p>That's exactly how a computer should be. Why should I have to troubleshoot? Why should I have to do anything but get on it and do my work?</p>
<p>So let's summerize here</p>
<p>Windows:</p>
<p>Want to kill yourself trying to get your computer run smoothly? Want to spend hours a month making sure Windows is clean and tidy? Want to loose some brain cells? A PC is for you!</p>
<p>Mac OS X:</p>
<p>Don't want to have any options for future modification? Don't want to have to think when choosing/setting up your computer? Don't feel like ever having to use your brain at all? Then a Mac is the computer for you.</p>
<p>I'll take a Mac, thanks.</p>
<p>"Don't feel like ever having to use your brain at all? Then a Mac is the computer for you."</p>
<p>1of42, I would have taken your argument a lot more seriously before. Are you implying that as a Mac user, I never use my brain while using it? Granted, my PowerBook does a lot of things far more easily and intuitively than on Windows...</p>
<p>People that say Macs are more expensive are incorrect, for some setups at least.
Dell Inspiron:
<a href="http://premierconfigure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=&ci=K1677ND&customer_id=RC964821&%7Etgt=cfg&l=en&s=k12&cs=RC964821%5B/url%5D">http://premierconfigure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=&ci=K1677ND&customer_id=RC964821&~tgt=cfg&l=en&s=k12&cs=RC964821</a>
Dell Precision:
<a href="http://premierconfigure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?config_data=&%7Etgt=cfg&c=us&ci=K1211ND&cs=RC974521&customer_id=RC974521&fb=1&l=en&s=k12%5B/url%5D">http://premierconfigure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?config_data=&~tgt=cfg&c=us&ci=K1211ND&cs=RC974521&customer_id=RC974521&fb=1&l=en&s=k12</a>
Apple Macbook Pro
<a href="http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/EducationIndividualCustom.woa/6244005/wo/VOTZ9w5BgBCh3RDIt8822btKdS5/2.?p=0%5B/url%5D">http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/EducationIndividualCustom.woa/6244005/wo/VOTZ9w5BgBCh3RDIt8822btKdS5/2.?p=0</a></p>
<p>Each configured similarly (the Inspiron has somewhat lower stats - Only a 2.0ghz processor, a weaker graphics card) and with the educational discount The Inspiron is $2278, the Precision is $2512, and the Mac is $2047. This does not include the extras on a Mac such as iSight or software such as iLife.</p>
<p>specs:
cpu: 2.16ghz Core2Duo
hdd:160gb
ram: 2gb 667
vcard:ATI X1400/ATIX1600
IEEE 802.11N</p>
<ol>
<li>You're looking at the dell business site.</li>
<li>Dell isn't cheap.</li>
<li>Dell isn't the only option.</li>
<li>There are hundreds of laptops with cameras built-in. I'm pretty sure all new HP and sony laptops have a built-in camera</li>
</ol>
<p>Want to give your hard-earned money and not have to think for the rest of your life, then a mac is for you.</p>
<p>If windows has an error, then you get an error code. Macs have a problem? No error codes. HOW THE hell am I supposed to fix the problem if I can't google some unique number? </p>
<p>What is the mac fanboy's solution? Get an extended warranty and/or take it to the apple store. Maybe I don't want to go to a store every time something goes wrong.</p>
<p>Since we're getting into stereotypes about instability, then let me give my own experience with XP (particularly XP x64 edition). I have never had a single system problem, virus, or crash. It is one of the most stable desktop OSes around.</p>
<p>diehldun: That was blatantly not serious. My point in posting that particular little tidbit which you found so offensive (which, interestingly enough, I admitted was needlessly pejorative in the post) was to point out the various ways something can be looked at. Several times in this thread PCs have been criticized for taking too much work to maintain. My point in posting that was it's totally a matter of perspective - my PCs take little to no upkeep, and I find Macs needlessly restrictive. Thus why when I posted that I made the post swing the other way, into a semi-insulting "people who use Macs don't know how to do anything with computers" tone.</p>
<p>Had you actually read the last sentence in my post and understood it, you would have realized that my statement wasn't meant to be serious, but rather to provide a counterpoint to what Alex was saying.</p>
<p>colincsl: The comparison between prices there is flawed, as Dell is one of the more expensive resellers at that price point, and also because you need to take Dell coupons into account - I would never buy a Dell without using one and they're available all over the internet. Often they take up to $500 off the sticker price. Also, the things afruff pointed out are problems with your comparison too.</p>
<p>Alex: Matter of perspective on that being how a computer should be. Personally, I want my computer to be malleable, customizable, and able to do any job I want with minimal fuss - but I am willing to accept some fuss in exchange for freedom.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is, if I were a person who wasn't really all that knowledgeable about computers, who couldn't fix problems myself, and who wasn't able or willing to learn how, then you're right, I would buy a Mac (not implying here that Windows takes much more effort than MacOS, just that it has the potential to). But I think it's very shortsighted to say that that makes Macs the better option. afruff's points regarding the difficulty if someone wants to fix his/her own issues with a Mac are also valid.</p>
<p>A similarly customized Thinkpad (however with a lower grade video card) is $1873 if edu discount, for further comparison.</p>
<p>You hardly ever have to fix a Mac, though.</p>
<p>I know a lot of people that own Macs, none of which have any serious problems. I've owned my Mac for 8 months and haven't had a single problem. I can't say the same about my Windows based laptop. Again, the Hardware and OS is made to work together, you don't need to mess around with it. If the OS or the software developed to run on it don't run well on your machine, you've probably had the Mac 3-4 years, it's time for an upgrade anyway.</p>
<p>Lets just leave it at this:</p>
<p>Anyone having difficulties with this decision go try both. Apple stores are everywhere. Macs aren't for everyone and that's ok. We all have our preferences and there's not a thing wrong with that.</p>
<p>Sorry if I seemed like I was trying to say Mac is better; I know it seemed that way, anyway. The fact is, I find myself using Windows just as much as my Mac, and for completely different reasons. Their both fantastic OS's.</p>
<p>that's the thing. you shouldn't NEED to upgrade your entire computer in the matter of a couple of years. you should be able to upgrade some parts along the way as you wish with flexibility. but there's no need to even go into that.</p>
<p>the other thing you've said about PC users needing a lot of time to spend fixing their computers is untrue. i have software to protect me and barely do anything to it except run the updates i need. all programs need to be updated constantly, even on macs, to avoid being victim of any vulnerabilities.</p>
<p>anyways this thread quickly became a mac os x versus windows thread again. that's why some objectivity would have been nice. people here aren't dumb, at least most people here. let the facts speak for themselves.</p>
<p>go ahead and move on to the next article in your overview.</p>
<p>Chapter Three: Printers</p>
<p>Okay, since almost everything I have to say about printers is already posted on the main section of CC, I'll just post a link to that.</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_life/printers.htm%5B/code%5D">http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_life/printers.htm
</a></p>
<p>Chapter Four: Links</p>
<p>Computers:
Dell - <a href="http://www.dell.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.dell.com</a>
Lenovo - <a href="http://www.lenovo.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.lenovo.com</a>
Apple - <a href="http://www.apple.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.apple.com</a>
Gateway - <a href="http://www.gateway.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.gateway.com</a>
HP - <a href="http://www.hp.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.hp.com</a>
Alienware - <a href="http://www.alienware.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.alienware.com</a></p>
<p>Printers:
Lexmark - <a href="http://www.lexmark.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.lexmark.com</a>
HP - <a href="http://www.hp.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.hp.com</a>
Dell - <a href="http://www.dell.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.dell.com</a>
Canon - <a href="http://www.canon.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.canon.com</a></p>
<p>Assesories:
Mouses - <a href="http://www.logitech.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.logitech.com</a>
Cases and Protection for your Mac - <a href="http://www.speckproducts.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.speckproducts.com/</a>
Tablets - <a href="http://www.wacom.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.wacom.com</a></p>
<p>If you have any links, please post them.</p>
<p>Cheers,
Alex</p>
<p>Um windows is the most unstable system I've ever seen. XP is a complete failure that should never have been released. How does Microsoft sleep after having released a product that is supposedly perfect when they know damn well that it's not? I used to have a crash about twice a week, sometimes three times. I have had to reinstall windows about a dozen times, and programs crash all the time. </p>
<p>On the other hand, only when I opened microsoft office on my mac did my mac slow down, so the dumbed down microsoft word can open up. Needless to say, the MS office trial that came with my mac went straight to the trash. It did crash once but that was my fault....I left it on sitting in the case.</p>
<p>Oh by the way, on the subject of printers, don't get an HP. If you get an HP and anything goes wrong with it, well, good luck. A three month old printer broke, I called HP, they dragged my feet for a month and a half, and well, they simply weren't worth my time. I'd rather just buy a new one. I heard Canon has good customer service. And because I've had so many problems with computers and the like, competent customer service and tech support is something for which I WILL pay a premium...(if you're listening HP keep this in mind....some WILL pay a higher price for competent tech support!!!!!)</p>
<p>Maybe cause you went to random sites your computer crashed. Who knows? I have not had a single crash with XP x64.</p>
<p>Guys, seriously enough. I appreciate all the talk but BB-TheGuy is right. This post isn't a Mac vs Windows thread, and I regret making it such.</p>
<p>Let's turn this into something productive. Add some Links folks :D Write some Articles. :D</p>
<p>I love my mac os x to death, but I have been having some recent problems with it. Whenever it goes to sleep, or i put it to sleep, the light flickers and the screen blanks out and it stays in that position until i pull the power cord out. I have to continuously change my screen timer settings. This problem recently started and it drives me crazy, sometimes it goes in its coma mode and makes this loud sound as if it is going to shoot off like a frickin rocket. Does this similar problem occur in ibooks after you have used them for say 2/3 years?</p>