<p>You can always use Harvard as a fallback to MIT in grad school… but even so, you still need a backup to Harvard, even if engineering is Harvard’s biggest weakness.</p>
<p>In the new USNWR era, no one can answer your question. </p>
<p>We all know the methodology is based 100% on institutional reputation. We all know that has no objective underpinning. It doesn’t speak to the experience a student will have, what their skill set will be upon graduation or what their job prospects will be like. It’s virtually worthless. Yet, like we can’t turn away from a car wreck or the sight of an exposed body part, we are drawn like a moth to flame when it comes to USNWR (me included). </p>
<p>Suffice it to say, no matter where you go, engineering will be one of the toughest, if not the toughest major offered. It will attract bright students or they’ll fail out. It can’t be dumbed down enough to let students who aren’t pretty darned sharp through. This will be true of any ABET program you attend. You will be surrounded by smart hardworking students no matter where you go.</p>
<p>I’d say go for the best combination of name recognition you can get at a good deal on tuition. I second SLO. They have a great reputation and instate tuition is very reasonable.</p>
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<p>Let’s be clear here. Their categorical rankings are based on institutional reputation. Their national and regional rankings are based on quantitative, objective metrics. Still though, even their objective metrics fail to measure the actual product. Instead, they measure the ingredients going in to cake and the quality of the oven used to bake it (so to speak). This is the real problem behind most college rankings. What exactly are we ranking here? It’s like chosing a car based purely on the caliber of schools that the engineers who designed the car graduated from. Instead, we should choose a car based on fuel economy, reliability, how the car handles, brakes, accelerates, etc. </p>
<p>That being said, rankings do tell us some valuable things about schools. They generally do a good job giving overall trends, and help to highlight schools that may have numerous flaws, so that you can avoid them. Beyond that, they are not very useful, especially when you start playing the whole #13 vs #21 game. Personal fit, ABET accreditation, and a good or better engineering reputation are more important deciding factors.</p>
<p>Cal Poly SLO does not have Chemical Engineering but Cal Poly Pomona does. UCSB has excellent Chemical Engineering department.</p>
<p>I’ll weigh in on this, and I’ll also give you a bit of my background. I graduated from an engineering school in the 80s, and have over 20 years in experience working (civil engineering, not chemical), and I also have a son who is finishing his senior year at a STEM high school and considering his options for college next year with a major in computer engineering.</p>
<p>First, ABET accreditation is important, but you should be aware of why. Some employers will not hire graduates from programs that are not certified. If you envision licensing as a professional engineer in your career path, ABET certification is a must. Licensure is most important in civil engineering, not as important in some of the other disciplines depending upon your ultimate career path. </p>
<p>What do you envision yourself doing? Big oil and gas (Exxon)? Big chemical (Dupont)? Environmental mitigation? Staying local, or going all over the world? These are some of the questions you have to ask yourself, and you don’t need concrete answers right now at your age (16 or 17 I’d guess), but they are factors. As one poster pointed out earlier, if you want to work in the petroleum industry, you should consider some of the bug state schools in the Midwest with programs that aren’t necessarily highly ranked by USNews, but that are well regarded by that particular industry. </p>
<p>One thing I would suggest is to find a program with ABET certification across in a variety of disciplines. The first year or two at many school consist of base classes in all subjects. I originally went to school thinking mechanical engineering. Thermodynamics changed that. It’s a good idea to have a choice if you decide to shift gears. </p>
<p>I have worked with engineers who graduated from the many of the engineering schools here in New Jersey (Stevens, NJIT, Rutgers and Rowan), and there were good and mediocre ones from all of them. Note that three of those are state schools.</p>
<p>Do you want to go to a school where ChemEs are the majority, minority, or somewhere in between? It probably won’t make much difference at larger schools, but it can be a factor at smaller schools. I went to a school (Stevens) that was primarily mechanical and electrical engineers (at that time). We graduated about 20 civil engineer my year, and I was the only one who chose the environmental tract. As a result, they did not schedule upper level undergraduate classes, and I had to take some graduate classes to meet my undergraduate requirement. You may end up as one of only a handful of ChemEs at some schools. Pluses-individualized attention. Minuses-Professor Snape may be the only one teaching that course that you need. You may have to dig for the breakdown of majors within each discipline, but the schools will give it to you.</p>
<p>Bottom line-use the rankings as a starting point only, and do not get hung up on going to a top ranked school. If you find a program that you like considering all the other factors that I didn’t even touch (size, campus, tech school vs. engineering college at liberal arts school) then put it on the list to research further as you narrow down your list.</p>
<p>Two points to close on: First, you will have to do an honest assessment of your academic profile. You stated that you are a non-traditional student, but the schools will still look at whatever hard data you can provide-board scores and whatever grades you can provide. </p>
<p>Second you asked about cost. We have been going through this issue with our son. He was recently accepted to his dream school, but when we reviewed the financial aid package, it’s clear that we (my wife and I and him individually) would really have to stretch and borrow a lot of money to make it happen. He was accepted at a state school honors program, with a generous scholarship (full tuition, partial room and board). The difference in cost is over $30,000.00 I think that his dream school is better academically, but not worth the premium. We are still waiting for a couple of schools, but we are leaning toward the state option. I’m not saying that you should definitely go to the cheapest school…but it’s a factor. I tried hard to get him to look at some inexpensive out of state options (SDSMT), but he wants to stay close to home.</p>
<p>Apologies for the lengthy reply.</p>
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<p>However, Howard does give full tuition to full ride scholarships to many students who have the grades to go elsewhere.</p>
<p>Since you mentioned Howard, I assume you are not only female, but a minority.</p>
<p>Honey, you can write your ticket where you want to go for engineering. Plenty of scholarships for women in engineering and minorities in engineering.</p>
<p>And when you do get into your chosen school, apply for REUs. These are summer research internships where they provide you housing and a stipend. You’ll get to do that research you crave, and you’ll have a great resume. If you do change your mind about med school, you’ll be a shoe in with all the REUs under your belt.</p>
<p>With your “hooks”, don’t sell yourself short and go to a no name school. Go to a school that large, successful companies recruit at. You can go to the career center site and/or the engineering department site to find that. I know I was able to find it easily for Clemson, and I was impressed at the employers that recruited there. You may not think that’s important now, but when you’re in your third year and you still haven’t landed an internship, you’ll wish you’d gone to the higher ranked school, loans and all.</p>
<p>Good luck on your search!</p>
<p>Keep in mind, engineering schools send a lot of graduates to work for companies in the same regional area. For example, for Electrical/Computer engineering, UCB, Stanford and other Bay area/California schools would have a high likelihood of feeding into lucrative Silicon Valley jobs.
For chemical engineering, Schools in Texas (UT, A&M, Rice) tend to feed graduates into downstream positions in major refineries on the Texas and Louisiana coasts, as well as upstream positions in the Gulf and other off-shore sites. </p>
<p>EE and ChemE grads in other parts of the country will have to search and network more aggressively to find top jobs in the aforementioned regions.</p>
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<p>Many universities do not use race or ethnicity as a factor in admissions (this includes the California public universities), and many that do may make it a smaller factor than in past generations. Also, there are non-black students at historically black universities.</p>
<p>To the OP: you would be a transfer student; prior college grades and course work suitable for preparation for upper division work in chemical engineering are the primary factors in admission.</p>
<p>You can have the best of both worlds; The University of Minnesota-Twin Cities. It is ranked among the top 5 ChemE programs in the nation, and it cost you roughly the same as a UC ($19k tuition for OOS, and $12k for R&B, books, transportation etc…).</p>
<p>deistgirl, which Ivy are you thinking of transferring to?</p>
<p>uddhavagita: I think that OP wants to go MIT: “I would also like to keep the door open to be able to apply to (and have a chance at getting accepted to) MIT for graduate school”…</p>
<p>Don’t start me on the USNews rankings. 
They are, not doubt, a data point to consider, and I sometimes refer to it, but IMHO, far too much emphasis is placed on their rankings. I much prefer unbiased measured data (Payscale.com) over subjective data (USNews).</p>
<p>I am an engineer. The first thing I want to know when I see a system is how it works. Ranking is a system. As soon as I pulled back the curtain on the USNews methodology, I was shocked. </p>
<p>For us parents, the 300 pound gorilla in the room is the question “How might my child succeed in his chosen career if he goes to this particular school?” It’s the unasked question of this thread, is it not?</p>
<p>Well… look into it for yourself. USNews doesn’t even include a data point for a graduate’s success in their field. Nothing. If you read their methodology, they say they use the Carnegie Foundation’s data, which doesn’t rank schools at all. It simply reports on things important to the education industry, not to the students. How USNews weights this data is unknown. But his only accounts for a part of the ranking. The rest of their ranking comes from opinions. Yes… opinions. They freely admit it is surveyed opinions of educators and guidance counselors. </p>
<p>I’m sorry, but how can you have a ranking system with absolutely no regard to the quality, employability, and salary potential of their graduates. It just defies logic.</p>
<p>So although I would take the USNews ranking a single data point, this data point would not carry much weight in any of my decisions for my child. It would be more of a tie breaker than a foundation decision maker.</p>
<p>I urge anyone who disagrees with me to research the methodology of the USNews ranking system themselves. It can be easily navigated to in their website. It speaks for itself.</p>
<p>maikai: I dont disagree with you but I just want to add that UNSWR also in the business of making money…like any business the more people read, know and talk about then the more customers/clientele that they will have then it is all gravy as money will pour in.</p>
<p>But then again, like any business some people will buy into their products and some dont…So, buyers be aware !!!</p>
<p>@deistgirl - </p>
<p>Since you are a girl and (perhaps) a minority, you should take the advice of a previous poster and apply to the highest ranked schools possible, along with the lower ranked ones as backups.</p>
<p>I hate rankings, but pedigree does matter for that first great job, when experience levels are still quite low. My brother and I went to great schools that are highly ranked. My cousins did the same thing. It does matter for that first job.</p>
<p>I remember when I got my first computer developer job at Boeing years ago. The folks in the oreintation room had studied at MIT, Stanford, University of Washington, and other highly regarded schools. Some had NASA work experience. </p>
<p>Believe me, until you have established a good work history, pedigree matters.</p>
<p>Your competition will love it for you to attend a “no-name” low ranked school. Don’t listen to them. Forget about aesthetics like, student diversity and support groups. Pretty much ALL schools have them. If you want to go to a school that is not ranked, just be aware that your competition is going to a school like UC Berkeley or MIT.</p>
<p>And employers will give them EXTRA consideration during the hiring process.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>nwcrazy,</p>
<p>That’s the myth many would like to perpetuate. The pedigree gets you in the door. After that, the “EXTRA” consideration is gone. </p>
<p>I’m a 50-something senior guy in a semiconductor company. I’ve been involved in all types of hiring circumstances. From simply being on the interviewers, to being a member of a small group making the final decision to being the one to make the final decision.</p>
<p>The way you carry yourself… The way you answer the questions… They way you verbally demonstrate you are a good fit for the job… Your past projects in school, internships, Co-Ops,… The respect and knowledge you show about our company… Those are the deciding factors that win you the position, not the name of your school.</p>
<p>Location is also a big factor. If I’m hiring someone from far away and they will be living in this area for the first time in their lives… that’s a risk for us. I’d recommend you find the best school you can find in the area of the country you envision yourself living. That will increase you chances for happiness. </p>
<p>And lastly, be mindful of your interviewer. Realize he is looking at a potential associate. He/she wants to see who you are. They are trying to get a feeling for how it will be working with you. So I suggest being professional, but also down to Earth and “real”. So many interviewees come through and they never expose who they are during the interview process. “Stiff” and “Rehearsed” are words we too often toss around when we discuss how someone interviewed. Go in with confidence. Know that you have already captured their interest by being granted an interview.</p>
<p>maikai. Very, very nice post.</p>
<p>I will add that if you want a job that requires a security clearance then it will be very important for you not to be in a great deal of debt.</p>
<p>@maikai -</p>
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<p>That is exactly what I’m talking about. That is part of the “extra” consideration that I meant.</p>
<p>You said nothing that contradicts what I said. In fact, I agree with the rest of what you posted. My point is that nothing you stated is mutually exclusive with attending a pedigree school. If a person is going to work hard for years in school, the person SHOULD go to a highly ranked school to do it.</p>
<p>And I stand by that…</p>
<p>My son is interested in Biomedical Engineering - he’s been accepted to Pitt, Clemson, Univ of Illinois, Purdue. Waiting to hear from Duke (really long shot!) Univ of Illinois program is so new it’s under ABET accreditation process now. Overall, their school of engineering is ranked 5th. His plan is med school - liked Clemson a lot. Full tuition scholarship at Pitt - nothing from Univ of Illinois, some money from Purdue. What would you suggest?</p>
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<p>That would be “Full tuition scholarship at Pitt” for $100 Alex.</p>