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<p>Echoing this-Michigan, especially the Metro Detroit area, is VERY dependent on the auto industry.</p>
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<p>If medical school is a primary interest, cost becomes important to save money for expensive medical school. What kind of net price after grants and scholarships are you looking at for each school?</p>
<p>Jan2013, When deistgirl asked the question “should one take into consideration the US News and World Report rankings?” I believe she was asking about the undergraduate engineering ranking of the schools not the ‘college’ ranking. Under Grad engineering ranking and ‘college’ ranking are 2 different things on USWNR; 2 different rankings. Jan2013, when you said “So, trash that ranking from UNSWR as it is useless”, were you refering to the ‘college’ ranking? If you were I agree. deistgirl should only let the ‘undergraduate engineering’ ranking be a factor (though not the deciding factor). But Jan2013, if you were telling her to disregard this ranking, I would have to disagree.</p>
<p>University of Oklahoma and University of Tulsa are top notch PETE schools, and always ranked on various websites within the top 20 (most sites top 10) for PETE FYI.</p>
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<p>Bounce007: do you read trashy magazine, tabloid, anything trashy? I certainly dont since it is trashy and no benefits to me at all. Besides I already have a school to attend to and I dont keep up with the Jones from other school(s).</p>
<p>It looks like you who are perhaps the only one in here have read the trashy UNSWR and analyzed it deeply. Like hey Willis…this college is top 50 in the ranking of colleges but the engineering major is not; or how about that college is top 20 in Business or Engineering Major but in the bottom 100 of college ranking. That is just unbelievable.</p>
<p>You said: “University of Oklahoma and University of Tulsa are top notch PETE schools, and always ranked on various websites within the top 20 (most sites top 10) for PETE FYI.”</p>
<p>I would say: OK they are top 20 or top 10 in PETE or engineering too?..then after getting their degree in any of those schools during interview they have to say to the recruiter(s): Sir…I went to Top 10 PETE or Engineering Major but my school is number 100 or way in the bottom of ranking for Colleges; is that OK and will I get the job?..</p>
<p>More importanly, I wonder how those parents would cope with such confusion? do they go by the college ranking or by major ranking? or do they know the difference or not?..</p>
<p>well, too much trash with UNSWR and I will leave it up to you to clean it up.</p>
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<p>I agree with this statement, but I think it understates the importance of “gets you in the door”. I am hiring for a technical position right now, and I have roughly 40 applicants that are qualified on paper (and over a hundred that aren’t). All else being equal, who did I call, and in what order?</p>
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<li>I called the applicants from top schools with outstanding GPAs</li>
<li>I called the applicants from good schools with outstanding GPAs listed, or the applicants from top schools without GPAs listed</li>
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<p>I called about 15 people and am now down to about 5 candidates that I will bring in for interviews. Four of the five are from top schools in the US, China, and India. The other was from a very good school but near the top of his class. I expect that one of them will be hired. Other applicants simply didn’t even get called.</p>
<p>Right now, the unemployment rate in this industry is about 3%. So it’s likely that the people I didn’t call will still be employed. But the better students will always have their selection of jobs.</p>
<p>So my advice is, if you don’t attend a top school, make sure you are absolutely a top student.</p>
<p>Jan2013: No need to become sarcastic and border on the lowest form of wit (sarcasm). We are having intelligent discourse the aim implicitly being to help the OP and other readers who may possibly have the same question. it is your opinion that USNWR is trashy, many people don’t share your vantage point. Prospective employees don’t tell employers “I went to Top 10 PETE or Engineering Major but my school is number 100 or way in the bottom of ranking for Colleges; is that OK and will I get the job?” That’s silly. However many employers do know which schools are well known for providing a quality curriculum in respective fields of engineering. USNWR along with many others rank academic programs. These websites serve as a guide for people seeking matriculation through various academic programs. It shouldn’t be the deciding factor. As many before me have said, they would consider the rankings but it wouldn’t be the deciding factor.</p>
<p>You brought up OU and Tulsa and suggested that even though their ‘college’ ranking is low, graduates of these schools are sought by employers. Why? Because the programs offered by these schools have quality curricula. The websites that have ranked these schools as top schools in PETE have done so rightly and no doubt have helped many students to determine what school maybe within their grasp of acceptance. If the rankings are plausible and credible, why not use them? I think you misunderstood the OP with your initial post. Many people will agree that you can use USNWR but don’t use it alone.</p>
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<p>Which ranking do you think a PetE recruiter will care about? Overall engineering ranking? English? Or Petroleum Engineering? A good part of those rankings is peer evaluations, so you can expect programs with high specific rankings to be standout programs within a particular school (and likely those which will be recruited heavier).</p>
<p>Bounce007: I am not being sarcastic in here. I am just exagerating in order to make my points, that’s all.</p>
<p>Anyhow, one man’s trash and it is another man’s treasure?..whatever works for you. If UNSWR will benefit you then use it if not then you know what to do. However, for sure I know that UNSWR is in the business of making money…and the more people talk about it, analyze it then the more business they will generate. This will be in line with what you said: “Many people will agree that you can use USNWR but don’t use it alone”…</p>
<p>That many people will buy anything although if you ask them do you know the difference between college ranking and major ranking (both of them are in UNSWR) and they dont know…or not even aware there exists such differences.</p>
<p>Then again…since it is trash for me, I will leave it up to you to clean it up. THANKS.</p>
<p>RacinReaver: Thank you! My point exactly. Jan2013 has not yet understood this point. Good luck to the OP! I sure enjoyed my undergraduate years!</p>
<p>Caution: stay as far away from the US News Rankings as possible. There is a complete East Coast bias and the methodology for ranking is based on the surveys/opinions of average people and not on the people who matter most… professors and industry professionals!!! </p>
<p>I strongly urge people to use rankings. I am in no way against them, but I recommend rankings such as the Times Higher Education or the ARWU. Both explain their methodology and use the opinions of industry professionals and university professors!!! Not that our opinions as students and graduates don’t matter, but lets face it, most of us grew up thinking that the Ivy’s were America’s best universities. Not that this doesn’t hold some truth, but since reliable rankings have come out over the past few years, peoples’ opinions are changing!</p>
<p>Anyone use alternative ranking systems to cross-check the US News ranking validity?</p>
<p>As I have said before, there are probably grads from 2+2 programs kicked over laughing at how this forums discuss rankings. I work with folks everyday that graduated from schools that this forum never heard of…BUT…since they have the CEH Ethical Hacker Certification and have a clearance, they can bill the Feds (without sequestration, LOL) triple-digit hourly rates.</p>
<p>They probably could care less about the USNR rankings.</p>
<p>There is a difference between attending college and knowing how to play the game.</p>
<p>nwcrazy,
I think the OP’s question here is “Is the better ranked school worth it?” and my answer is no.</p>
<p>If she does well just about anywhere, she’ll get interviews and job offers. Being a woman still has it’s advantages. Diversity in the workplace and all that.</p>
<p>But even if she were a man, my answer would still be “no.” Someone wrote a post saying the quality of people coming out of MIT and similar institutions was high and in their opinion, that person would have been successful no matter where they attended. It wasn’t the institution, it was the person. This is absolutely correct, IMHO.</p>
<p>I’ll go one step futher. (I always go that one step, then regret it, but here goes…) </p>
<p>Except for the truly gifted High School students, higher ranked schools mean greater debt. That’s bad news for someone like me. It means that, even though I’ve given you a good salary, you’ll be asking for raises frequently and/or looking to jump ship as soon as I’ve finally got you up to speed. It’s a big strike against you… probably wiping out any benefit the household name gave you in the first place.</p>
<p>The OP would be better off attending a school she could afford and do well at. IMHO, she will probably do better if she remains near her support system. It sounds like she has a child. Separation will do a number on both the mother and child. </p>
<p>If a single mom sent in a resume (from ANY ABET school), had a good GPA and a few good internships/CoOps… She’d get an invite to interview. If she interviewed HALF AS WELL as an MIT grad, she’d get the job. </p>
<p>Going to school, getting a good GPA, managing a couple/few internships, and caring for a child? I’m sorry, that girl has chops. She also has “RESPONSIBLE” written all over her. Sorry to burst any bubbles… If she can pull that off, she trumps anyone/everyone and moves to the head of the list.</p>
<p>So… my answer is “no”, the higher ranked school is not worth the extra debt or inconvenience of being away from her support system.</p>
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<p>I can corroborate this.</p>
<p>Taking a survey (looking at LinkedIn/Facebook/google+ profiles) of software engineers I know personally working on on innovative projects, most went to unranked no-name state schools or small LACs. I seriously had to google their schools to see if they were real. One person went to vatech, one went to Hopkins, one got a masters at columbia, out of 12 people. All of them are 25-35 and make solid salaries (less than what their billable hours are though, have to pay that corporate overhead) in the high fives to low sixes. Perhaps more useful, they all have incredibly stable job security.</p>
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<p>How about “top 17 petroleum engineering school”?</p>
<p>(There are 17 schools with ABET accredited petroleum engineering degree programs. 
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<p>Oh I like that UCB, that makes Capitol College the number #2 astronautical engineering undergrad program.</p>
<p>Bounce007 said in #49: “Jan2013 has not yet understood this point”</p>
<p>I would say: dont just look but read the posts after you #50 etc. They all dont like UNSWR for whatever reasons. So, I believe you are the one that has not yet understood this point.</p>
<p>Once again, I dont read thrash (UNSWR) and I dont keep up with the Joneses in other colleges about their ranking as listed on UNSWR. That’s my two cents.</p>
<p>luc425, I don’t think USNWR actually uses “man on the street” for ranking. I’m pretty sure most of their ranking is based off of “peer assessment” which is faculty and deans. I think it’s Businessweek or WSJ or someone like that which does a similar assessment, but instead asks the people at companies that are in charge of hiring. I will agree with the strong Northeast and California bias going on with most of the surveys, though.</p>
<p>That said, going to a very reputable school can open up doors. I was at a conference with a classmate, and we were talking to a dude from a national lab in Switzerland. He asked where we went, we told him Caltech, and he said immediately if either of us wanted a spot there he’d arrange it. The following summer my friend was in Switzerland (and now he’s there for a post-doc). Our department isn’t “ranked” in the top 10, but having that well known name certainly did pay off.</p>
<p>Also, depending on the student, a higher ranked college can be cheaper. I was actually able to attend my top private for undergrad for cheaper than my brother did an in-state public down the street due to scholarships and financial aid.</p>
<p>The USNWR methodology is weak, but nowhere is it as weak as in engineering. They use only peer assessment, that is they ask deans of schools to name the the eight or so schools they think are best and compile the data. That’s it.</p>
<p>From USNWR:</p>
<p>These undergrad engineering programs were ranked solely on a peer assessment survey conducted in spring 2012. To appear on an undergraduate engineering survey, a school must have a program accredited by ABET. The programs below are schools whose highest engineering degree offered is a doctorate.</p>
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<p>For program rankings, such as engineering, that’s arguably the best way to rank. </p>
<p>Other methodologies use objective metrics, such as entrance stats, graduation rates, etc. All of which don’t tell you ANYTHING the specific programs. Worse yet, the objective-based [income stat skewed] ranking methodology has a tendancy to keep the top schools at the top, and the bottom schools at the bottom. For example, there might be a very good, lower ranked school out there with an excellent engineering program… but since it’s not at the top of the rankings, that school will unlikely attract high achieving talent (since most high school kids follow the big names and high rankings). Therefore, this school remains at the bottom of the rankings due to a lackluster student profile. On the other hand, schools at the very top can often rest on their laurels, with a plentiful stream of high talent, which, in turn, keeps that school’s ranking on top. </p>
<p>So for the purposes of program rankings, peer assessment is a good method.</p>