<p>[Best</a> Undergraduate Teaching | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching)
These rankings show student satisfaction with their teachers. What school is tied for first? Princeton. What school doesn’t even make the cut? Harvard.
I think what makes Princeton a more ideal undergrad fit than Harvard is the teaching.</p>
<p>From Professor Jonathan Levy (my friend accepted early got this on her accepted students website):</p>
<p>Congratulations on your admission to Princeton! I’m Jon Levy, I’m an assistant professor of history, and I’d like to welcome you to this website. I look forward to the opportunity to welcome you to Princeton in person next fall. </p>
<p>Over the next month or so, I’m going to be blogging a few times a week in this space. I hope to give you a sense of what it is a Princeton professor does, and a bit of what it might be like to be a student here. </p>
<p>Also, this week I’m giving the final lectures in my course, History 379: The History of American Capitalism. I’ll likely be sharing my reflections on how the course went, what history has to teach us about the present state of the American economy (sorry, I don’t have any investment advice!), and more generally how historians think. I also hope to share with you how my research – on the history of risk, the historical relationship between capitalism, slavery, and freedom, the rise of the private business corporation – is shaped by my interactions with Princeton students. </p>
<p>But first I should introduce myself. I’m from Texas originally. This is my fourth year teaching at Princeton, and I arrived here after receiving my PhD from the University of Chicago, and earlier my BA from Yale. So what makes Princeton different?</p>
<p>Let me briefly share a story from my very first day on campus. It was my job interview. Normally, in the academic profession, job candidates give a one-hour talk on their research. Here in the history department at Princeton, however, the first thing job candidates do is give a presentation on their approach to undergraduate teaching. After that, the interview turns to research interests. </p>
<p>I had always heard that Princeton took special pride in the faculty’s commitment to undergraduate teaching. But I was nevertheless struck when my presentation on teaching turned into an engaged, fascinating, free-flowing dialogue – with world-renowned researchers in their respective fields no less – on the ins and outs of effective teaching. Cleary, Princeton professors thought about teaching a lot. </p>
<p>In other words, there was a reason why, in a Princeton job interview, the teaching presentation came first. Now that I’m here, I realize that a seemingly innocuous scheduling decision was a way to signal to prospective faculty members just how seriously Princeton takes undergraduate teaching. That commitment runs deep here, and truly is what makes this place – from the perspective of its faculty – different. Just like me, you will sense it from the first minute you step on campus.</p>
<p>@lagging, my sister chose Princeton over Harvard partially because of the teachers so I feel pretty strongly about this…
But at Harvard and Yale, professors may be at the institution doing graduate work/working in professional schools. Princeton does not have professional schools; the focus is on the undergraduate.
I’ve met undergrads at Princeton taking courses with John Rando, Paul Krugman, Jeff Eugenides, Chris Simms, Paul Muldoon, Carol-Oates… and there are even more famous professors at Princeton who teach undergrads.
Princeton’s focus on undergraduate teaching in all departments (what Levy alludes to) means that teachers are not only assessed on their research, but their teaching abilities. Also, Princeton’s classes are (on average) smaller than those at Harvard/Yale, so if you want a small class size Pton is your school.
You shouldn’t base your experience off of one haphazard meeting with one professor. I assure you that my sister raves constantly about her professors.</p>
<p>Finally, Harvard wins cross admits but not by as much as that blog says:
[The</a> New York Times > Week in Review > Image > Collegiate Matchups: Predicting Student Choices](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/09/17/weekinreview/20060917_LEONHARDT_CHART.html]The”>The New York Times > Week in Review > Image > Collegiate Matchups: Predicting Student Choices)</p>
<p>@glasses: oh, i must have been travelling in circles around the “pretty, brochure-worthy section of campus”, then.</p>
<p>@kpackett- I’m sure majority of the profs are great, but the one for the field I intended to minor in was not. If it wasn’t a subject I planned to minor in, then one bad prof wouldn’t be a big deal. But I would have this prof for four hours every week for all four years of school. Not worth it.</p>
<p>I have a burning question to ask.
Does Harvard offer an undergraduate major and classes similar to or even better than the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton?</p>
<p>THANKS IN ADVANCE!</p>
<p>
</p>
<ol>
<li><p>New Jersey weather makes air conditioning unnecessary for all parts of the year, excepting May-August, and a bit of September. You will most likely not be on campus during the summer, unless you have an internship or are doing research, in which case there will be air conditioning in the facilities you are working in.</p></li>
<li><p>Some of the dorms do have air conditioning. Really old buildings like Mathey do not. Most of the classrooms, however do. So given the fact that most buildings on campus do, in fact, have air conditioning… why do you keep on insisting that most buildings do not have air conditioning? I don’t think you should keep asserting to people on this thread that Princeton barely has any buildings with AC given the fact that you’ve only been exposed to the campus on an impromptu visit.</p></li>
<li><p>I live in New Jersey. My family has not turned on the AC since early September. Seeing that Princeton starts after that, I’m sure all you hot weather worriers will be fine.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I live in NJ and I’d like to second what decillion said about NJ weather. Even with the milder weather we have been having this year, there is really no need for AC during the school year.</p>
<p>I think most people perceive Harvard as a better school because of their relatively more famous “brand” as one of the best in the US… Although I think its undergrads program may not be as good as some other really good schools like Pton which focuses on the undergrads</p>
<p>If it was just the name, the cross admit numbers should look the same as Yale. But Princeton loses 80% according to that link. There has to be more going on then just name recognition. HYP are all well respected in the US. I agree with glassarechic that grade deflation, the “Princeton bubble,” eating clubs, and the preppy reputation are a big turn off to some people. Also if an applicant wishes to go to law or med school, Harvard recruits more of their own undergrads then they do from other schools, thus giving a slight increase in the odds of being accepted. I think it is a knee jerk reaction to just assume that applicants only choose Harvard over other schools for no other reason then the name.</p>
<p>I chose to apply early to Princeton because I love the university and I am very grateful to have been accepted. However, I can respect that not everyone shares my opinion.</p>
<p>Although Princeton has been consistently ranked USNWR #1 or #2, their yield is dismal at 60% or so compared to Harvard (77%), Stanford (75%), Yale (74%), and MIT (67%).</p>
<p>One reason may be lack of professional schools (medicine, law and business). Students who have a goal to go to one of those schools may prefer one of the schools that already has the professional schools. Another is that Princeton is considered tougher for GPAs at the undergrad level than Harvard and Yale (perceived that way due to grade deflation and Princeton’s stated guidelines about not issuing too many As). There are additional extraneous reasons cited (eating clubs, having exams after holidays instead of before, bad tours and so on). </p>
<p>I think some of this will change this year with the addition of SCEA to both Harvard and Princeton where people who are seriously interested in Princeton applied there early and same with Harvard. In the past, everyone applied to both places since no one knew where they would get in the RD round while most of them applied to Yale since it was the only SCEA in the Ivies while all others are ED. So this time around, it is expected that HYP got the serious interest folks upfront in SCEA and if they got into their first choice, they probably have not applied to others (only a guess and we will need to see what actually shakes out). It is quite possible the yields will go up all the way around.</p>
<p>^^ I agree</p>
<p>In reaction to some of the posts above…</p>
<p>I think that school tours are important and really helpful in the process of choosing where you want to go.</p>
<p>However, can you rely on your tour experience to give other people advice about the university? I think that Princeton students are way more able to give advice about their teachers than someone who visited the campus for one day.</p>
<p>And honestly, the debate was about students choosing Harvard over Princeton. Who cares about air conditioning?</p>
<p>I think texas got it right. It might also have something to do with the fact that people tend to apply to at least a couple of the HYPS(M) schools simply because that’s what smart kids do. But the one that is not like the other is Princeton, with its smaller grad programs, lack of professional schools, and small campus. For the top university-inclined student, this LAC-likeness might be a turnoff if they also get offers from HY or S. Really, IMO, P is like the ultimate LAC (though there is more research and a definite grad presence), the biggest reach on a list that might otherwise include Williams, Amherst, and their ilk. It’s a different experience than HYS, and one that applicants with the traditional “top student” college list might not be interested in when all their cards are on the table.</p>
<p>Yale’s yield is much lower than you think. 65.2% for last year.</p>
<p>[Yield</a> rate falls again for class of 2015 | Yale Daily News](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/aug/31/yield-rate-falls-fifth-straight-year/]Yield”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/aug/31/yield-rate-falls-fifth-straight-year/)</p>
<p>glassesarechic: I’d never thought of it from that perspective. That’s very true. In fact, everything you mentioned is what drew me to Princeton but might be a deal breaker for someone else. I didn’t apply to any LACs but did apply to HY and MIT.</p>
<p>One of my classmates applied to almost all LACs and Princeton (legacy).</p>
<p>Princeton’s yield will be close to Yale and MIT’s yield this year, at the 65% level.</p>
<p>texaspg</p>
<p>I don’t know if I agree with your analysis. With the exception of Harvard, the schools you have named all have an Early Action program. Typically, a large percentage of students accepted EA choose to attend that school. Princeton, by contrast, had no EA program until this year. </p>
<p>Rather than being “dismal”, Princeton’s yield rate is extremely high for a school with no early program (indeed, I think you would find that it’s significantly higher than the Yale RD yield rate). </p>
<p>This year will provide a much better barometer of comparable yield rates.</p>
<p>“Jon Reider, director of college counseling at San Francisco University High School, said the fact that Yale’s yield has decreased by 5 percent since 2007 is a direct result of Harvard’s and Princeton’s decision to eliminate their early action and early decision admissions programs. Yale was losing out on students who applied to Yale early but really wanted to go to Harvard or Princeton, he said, causing Yale’s yield to drop. But, he said, the fact that Harvard and Princeton are both bringing back early admissions this year will raise Yale’s yield next year.”</p>
<p>“Kids who apply early to Yale will be Yale kids,” he said. “Those who get in will want to come.”</p>
<p>Interesting article GF2015. I guess there are people out there predicting better yields for everyone this year. </p>
<p>Harvard dropped the top income for FA to 155k while Princeton kept it at 180k. So this could be added advantage at least for higher income families who still want to see some money.</p>