<p>I am a junior in high school, preparing for next schoolyear's college admissions process. I've just started to contemplate what school to apply to for early admission and am seriously considering Princeton and Harvard. The only thing is, I didn't get very in-depth tours of either school. I am particularly interested in mathematics, science (specifically physics), and philosophy. I was wondering whether any new freshmen who chose Princeton over Harvard or others with inside information on the two schools could tell me what factors set Princeton apart from Harvard. Thanks.</p>
<p>Both schools are absolutely stellar in both fields, but Princeton is known to provide a much more personal education, since there are no graduate schools on campus--you get all the resources of a major research university with the attention of a liberal arts college.</p>
<p>Princeton has EXTREMELY strong physics and math programs with multiple award-winning professors in each field. Additionally, as iv4me stated, the focus at Princeton is on undergraduates, so the award-winning professors are there to teach you as an undergrad. Also, there are many other factors why one might choose Princeton: it has a beautiful campus in a safe suburban environment, a more friendly (rather than competitive) environment, the color orange, etc....</p>
<p>Princeton's top three strongest departments are arguably math, physics, and philosophy. Definitely philosophy. Those happen to be its specialty departments. Harvard, of course, also has very strong departments in these areas, but I would give Princeton the edge, for the reasons listed by iv4me.</p>
<p>But princeton has the eating clubs which i personally think suck majorly.</p>
<p>yeah, the eating clubs is the main reason that I chose Stanford over Princeton.</p>
<p>I've talked to many, many students about the effecct of the eating clubs, and most say it's not positive.</p>
<p>Youll undoubtedly encounter Princeton fanboys who will say that eating clubs have no negative effect of causing elitism, exclusivism, separation between groups like some have tried to convince me, but I have found from hours of research that the common criticisms of Princeton are true. Stereotypes about Princeton just don't come from thin air. There's a reason Pton is viewed as the elitist, WASP, preppy, exclusive IVY. </p>
<p>I would have gone to Princeton if it were not for the eating clubs.</p>
<p>I would suggest you search out these aspects of Pton yourself.</p>
<p>With that said, I would easily pick Princeton over Harvard. Harvard's undergraduate education is rife with problems. And Harvard doesn't really have a good social life at all. Although Princeton has some exclusivism in its social scene, at least it has one, which Harvard does not, while having a spectacular undergraduate education with lots of access to professors.</p>
<p>I just found Stanford to have all the things I wanted: fun, non-exclusive social life, great academics, and friendly students.</p>
<p>But the choice is ultimately yours.</p>
<p>Aren't you the kid who applied to Stanford because somebody told you the girls are "hot"?</p>
<p>That stereotype's far far outdated. Princeton students view the preppy
image as a complete joke (they dressed up in polo and were playing croquet on the green outside Clio during April Hosting as a joke), and they have more than enough money to ensure that Princeton's not an elitist, WASPy, exclusive place. I'm receiving over $40,000 in financial aid myself. I don't understand how with the majority of students receiving financial aid (with an average aid package of something around what, $25,000?), you can attack Princeton as elitist or exclusive at all.</p>
<p>I also don't understand the huge fuss about eating clubs. For the last time, they are NOT exclusive. Half are sign-in, which means absolutely no bicker process at all. If you do happen to bicker a selective eating club, odds are that you WILL get into that eating club--you probably have friends there in the first place if you're trying to bicker. Sure, the eating clubs could possibly be improved, but they're better than nothing at all, and they're definitely better than what they're being made out to be.</p>
<p>(And, surprisingly enough, I have to agree with Byerly. I can't think of anywhere better than the Boston area to go to college (with the exception of MAYBE NYC))</p>
<p>Haha, if I wanted to go to a school where girls are really hot, I would definately have gone to ASU or University of Texas, not Stanford. </p>
<p>lol</p>
<p>Heres the thing...
Outdated stereotypesregardless of how inaccurate/provincial/exhausting they may bewill continue to persist when it comes to college selection, because they've been around for awhile and because generalization is an easy way out when it comes to the research process.</p>
<p>I think this is particularly true for the Ivy League schools. And it just so happens, the two I was stuck between (Princeton and Brown.. I'm going to the former) seem to exemplify this the most. IE: Princeton is "elite, rich, and super preppy"; Brown is "green-haired, protest-happy, and super liberal."</p>
<p>From my visits alone, I found out just how outdated those stereotypes really are. Yeah you'll find a handful of kids who fit the bill, but for as opposite as the stereotypes make these 2 schools out to be, I found the student bodies @ both places to be extremely friendly, bright, and neither in-your-face-elitist nor overly iconoclastic. I believe many of them would thrive/be content at either place, to be honest.</p>
<p>I think quirklily pretty much nailed the eating club part.. don't like? don't join. That seems to be the philosophy of a ton of students, and you are looked upon no less than a peer who enjoys that scene.</p>
<p>I'm getting way off course now, so I'll cut my own rope here... but I suppose the reason I felt the need to post at all was because I'd hate to see you turn away from a truly wonderful university because of some widely-held, distorted generalization. Novel of a mumble aside, good luck with everything next year. You'll end up at the right place. :)</p>
<p>note (or remember), too, that harvard has "final clubs." unlike princeton's eating clubs, all of which are co-ed and half of which are non-selective, the final clubs are all single-sex and all selective - so selective, in fact, that they identify and "punch" their members from the student body rather than letting interested students apply to them, as with eating clubs and greek groups.</p>
<p>arjun:</p>
<p>I think you need to decide on your own which school will make you happy. Often, the advice from the internet bbs is not honest. If you ask a general question, you may get unbiased opinions. However, when you ask a very specific narrow question, you may get answers depending on the motivation of that person.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>(1) Those who are at Princeton will defend their school. They may have gone there for variety of reasons - they couldn't go anywhere, they got a better fin aid, family members influenced them etc.</p>
<p>(2) Then there are some who would go to any length to promote their own school either as students or as old alumni farts. They have to 'prove' that the decision they made eons ago, was the best decision.</p>
<p>(3) Students who will go to other schools for again variety of reasons, fin aid, lack of admittance, or whatever reason they can think of. They have to defend their own decision by making mountain out of nothing on superficial generalizations.</p>
<p>In short, the information you will get from internet BBs will always be tainted.</p>
<p>Since you are considering these two schools, you must be intelligent. Make your own decision and if you can't decide on your own between these two fine schools, you don't deserve to go to either one of them.</p>
<p>
[quote]
They have to defend their own decision by making mountain out of nothing on superficial generalizations.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>to this suspected jab at my post, no mountains were made.. simply lending out some personal insight.</p>
<p>when all is said and done, the decision is yours. and i think it is exactly that sense of ownership that seemingly eliminates any need to defend.</p>
<p>no jab was intended....</p>
<p>It's Houseparties weekend. The eating clubs are in full swing. As a freshman my D doesn't belong to one. So she and her friends go out to dinner and then go over to the parties when they open up late and night. Yes, OPEN UP.</p>
<p>The clubs have recently been commended by the borough of Princeton as helping to actually control unsafe campus drinking. Turns out the club environment is on average much safer than room parties. There are the occasional incidents but they are on average safer. One club even now has a Safety Czar.</p>
<p>Today it's Lawnparties. Outside. Open.</p>
<p>well they also had free out-door concert yesterday. S was performing and we heard him. He kept his cell on and we had our speaker phone on !!</p>
<p>As a student attending Princeton next year, I would say that the social life is definitely dominated by eating clubs, but what does this really mean? I have friends who've gone to parties at Princeton and Penn, and say that the eating clubs on weekends are very similar to frat parties at Penn. Frats dominate the majority of schools, eating clubs are our version of them. </p>
<p>This idea of elitism comes from a Princeton of 40 or 50 years ago where eating clubs were exclusively WASP and male, and when very few minorities or women attended the university. Now, the school is 64% white, only 2% less diverse than the University of Pennsylvania, which prides itself on its diversity. At the same time, Princeton has the best financial aid program in the country and a greater proportion of public school students than Yale. </p>
<p>I picked Princeton over some other VERY enticing offers. I visited Princeton for myself and discovered a wonderful intellectual atmosphere filled what an incredible diversity of thought and background, I discovered very little exclusivity at all, which is why I would have to say DiamondT's analysis is incorrect.</p>
<p>Living 10 minutes away from Stanford myself, I'd have to say their social scenes are pretty similar, but the parties and the location of Princeton are better (an hour away from NY and Philly vs. San Francisco), while Stanford's athletics are far superior. </p>
<p>However, to go back to the original question of Princeton vs. Harvard, I'd have to say that Princeton's and Harvard's social settings are very different. Harvard's is definitely more varied, with more people exploring Boston vs. Princeton, where the social scene is primarily on campus. Personally, this is great for me. I love being part of a unified student body and I prefer a weekend of dancing and partying to a weekend of cultured shows and art museums (though it is still very accessible!)</p>
<p>Visit for yourself, but for me, both academically and socially, I firmly believe Princeton was a better fit for me than any other university.</p>
<p>You Princeton Trolls are certainly working overtime today on the "eating club" beat, aren't you?</p>
<p>It would certainly provide balance if you would all simply <em>acknowledge</em> that Princeton's reputation is hurt by the "eating club" thing, and further acknowledge that the Princeton administration, and the Daily Princetonian,both recognize the problem, and are prepared to deal with it, even if you old Tiger (and Tigresse!) alums won't!</p>
<p>"(G)iven the fact that about 75 percent of upperclassmen identify with one of the Prospect mansions, it is unlikely that the eating clubs are going anywhere soon. Plans for four-year colleges are likely to intensify the division of students between "haves" and "have nots." The "haves" will continue to join eating clubs, while the "have nots" will join the residential colleges. This kind of two-tiered social life should be avoided at all costs...."</p>
<p>Arjun:</p>
<p>Remember I told you about old alumnis ? They just come ou trolling, and while we talking about schools. Let us also post a link that shows student satisfaction at Harvard the lowest (28/31), TAs teaching under graduates, lack of faculty interaction, lack of advising and peers who coluld be plagiarizers.</p>