<p>Hi, I'd like some advice with choosing freshman year courses for my daughter,</p>
<p>Currently, we are choosing courses for next year. We're already sure she'll be taking:</p>
<p>Pre-AP Pre-Calculus
Pre-AP Freshman English
Pre-AP World History
Pre-AP Biology
Leadership
P.E.
Foreign Language?</p>
<p>Now, the main issue is the foreign language class she'll be taking. After some reading, we found that high-level colleges like students with +3 years in a foreign language. She wants to take Mandarin or Japanese; her second choice is Latin. My wife wants her on French or Spanish, and I'll just agree with whatever they compromise on. I do have some concerns; I predict we'll go for Latin, because of its roots in most western languages, but how would colleges view that in the future? It's a dead language after all. My daughter thinks that Mandarin and Japanese are practical in the real-world, which is a valid point, however she is interested in Latin because of its roots and ties to romantic languages. Also, she would like to get into biological sciences in the future, so Latin might help with that. If we do take Latin, what would it be like? We heard that French and Spanish are easy, and that Latin is something most people don't go for. </p>
<p>Now, we have a second dilemma. My daughter would like to take orchestra as an extra elective. She is a superb violinist (already won many honors and awards), and 2nd chair in our local county-wide orchestra. We talked to the principal about this, and he offered us the option of an 8th period for her. What would the work load be like for her? Would it be simply too much?</p>
<p>Foreign language, I’ve always felt that by studying Spanish or French you get 90% of the linguistic benefit you might get from Latin, plus you learn a language people actually speak. Perhaps a fan of latin would care to rebut this. If she wants Mandarin or Japanese though, why not? Those languages are going to be harder though, so I would put some thought into whether she is really interested in those cultures and might like to travel there some day before investing the time into learning them. </p>
<p>Orchestra, I doubt there is much work involved for someone who is already superb. She’ll need to play the music, but if her skill level is already high, it shouldn’t take much of her time. That said, schools and classes vary. Your best bet on workload questions is to talk to a student at your high school who is comparable to your daughter. I don’t understand what the “option of an 8th period” means. Are you talking about having to arrive early and have an extra-long school day (this might be fine, but if she also has time-consuming afterschool activities, it’s possible she might find the long days tiring). Or are you just saying she wouldn’t have a study hall? My daughter didn’t have any study halls until the last semester of her senior year so I don’t see why that would be any problem. Especially with classes like PE and “Leadership” in the schedule, it doesn’t sound excessively demanding. But again, schools do vary.</p>
<p>@mathyone by 8th period I mean getting to school at 7:00 and going home at 4:30 or later. We’d ask more about the work load and whatnot, but the high school isn’t even physically finished. We don’t have a counselor yet either. Next year will be its first year, which makes her part of the first freshman class ever. No one knows what it will be like, so we have nothing but speculation and uncertainty. </p>
<p>One thing to consider is how many teachers are available in each language at the high school. If there is only one teacher of the language, and that teacher retires or otherwise departs, the students who has only completed level 2 may not be able to reach level 3 in any high school language. Or if the school has budget problems, it may cut the least popular languages in order to retain the most popular languages.</p>
<p>It does look like she is three grade levels ahead in math. If she is interested in math enough to become a math major, she may want to note that math PhD programs often expect students to have a reading knowledge of French, German, and/or Russian, presumably because math papers are commonly written in those languages.</p>
<p>Spanish has obvious practical value in many parts of the US. That can also apply to French in some places (e.g. Louisiana, places near Quebec). Mandarin also, but note that many heritage speakers of Chinese are heritage speakers of other versions (e.g. Cantonese).</p>
<p>My S chose Latin partially because of the “non-spoken language” part. He didn’t want to spend his time practicing vocabulary to recite in front of the class. His sixth grade language arts teacher drilled the class on Latin roots (she called them "stem words). The were tested every week. S was a rabid reader and really enjoyed connecting the Latin “stems” to English vocab. S took three years of Latin in h.s.</p>
<p>I can’t speak for Mandarin, but I actually think Japanese is easier than many European languages. While kanji takes a lot of drilling, you get to completely speak over subject verb conjugation, declension, and irregular verbs. I do think Spanish has much greater practical value than Japanese, though.</p>
<p>The Orchestra will be most time consuming when there are concerts and rehearsals. My child who plays flute in the band says that requires minimum time. If she doesn’t mind having to be at the school longer, this seems like a great option.</p>
<p>My kids have all taken Spanish…it does get harder as they move towards AP Spanish. I personally think Latin is a great option, it also helps with vocabulary on the SAT once they know the roots. I would say your daughters’ opinion is the most important. She will be doing the work and should have interest in the language she is learning.</p>
<p>If she is considering medicine, I think there’s a good case for Spanish with the demographics in this country. </p>
<p>That does sound like a long day, but I’d be inclined to try it anyhow. I know kids at our school feel that being in music has helped them make friends and enjoy high school more.</p>
<p>I think foreign language is quite important. Will this be her first classes in a foreign language? None in middle school? If she studies Latin, Spanish or French this will help with learning grammar for her English classes. While every school is different, in our school the more focused students study Spanish or Italian, in our case. Latin is a slower class. </p>
<p>What is the leadership class? In our school it is an honors class that would be taken junior or senior year. It is a significant amount of work. Is leadership appropriate for a freshman?</p>
<p>Yes, I would take a close look at the teacher (s) and the other students who are taking each language. At our high school, Latin classes tend to be populated with students who are very adept at language learning and strong in one or more other areas as well. Some of the students who are strong at STEM and weaker in language arts will opt for Spanish instead, and/or drop their language after two or three years. </p>
<p>If your daughter hopes to take her language through senior year, I would look at whether the school is committed to offering four years (or more) on a continuing basis, and whether students are able to schedule these upper-level classes so they do not conflict with AP’s in other areas. At our school, most of the Latin students are also taking AP’s in other areas (including math and science) so scheduling is rarely an issue. (Bummer if the only section of a language conflicts with the only section of BC calc, for example.)</p>
<p>Also, the amount of time any of these classes takes, and the level of proficiency reached by the highest performing students, will depend partly on student aptitude for the subject matter and the organizational skills of the student and teacher. Additionally, Mandarin or Spanish might be difficult if classes are dominated by heritage speakers and instruction is geared to this level.</p>
<p>I don’t think admissions committees care which language you take, though I think they may have a misperception that Latin is hard. (I think they also think the same of Chinese and Japanese if you are not a heritage speaker.) I think because of not having to speak it it’s easier in some ways. Both my kids took Latin, (older through AP younger through Latin 4) but I’m not a big fan. I agee with mathyone, that you can get most of the benefit of learning roots from French or Spanish and you can enjoy the benefit of being able to travel where the language is spoken. In the case of Spanish you may just have to head to a different neighborhood. I wish I spoke Spanish every single week. (I speak French and German.) I also agree that the number of teachers and times the class is offered should be a consideration. Both my kids had scheduling issues every single year because their Latin classes were only offered once or twice a day. It got worse the higher they got. Lots of kids took two years of Latin, but then the number of kids taking it fell way, way off. </p>
<p>My vote would be for Spanish because in this country so many people speak it, and after that Chinese then Japanese. Just for future possible usefulness.</p>
<p>My daughter was already taking Spanish and chose to continue it in HS. She had the option of Spanish 2 or Spanish 3. She chose Spanish 2 as she wasn’t confident in her skills but it turned out to be her “easy” class. So if your child needs a class that is not as challenging, then one based on the roman alphabet might be better.</p>
<p>First of all, the OP might want to reconsider saying things like, “if WE take Latin…” as WE are doing nothing of the sort, the DAUGHTER will be the one in class. Beyond that, leadership at my D’s HS is indeed an upper-level class, and it is very time consuming as well, since the students are expected to put in a good amount of out-of-school time on a set number of community service hours in addition to helping various groups and the administration with school events and projects, PLUS class assignments. </p>
<p>Her school offers only Japanese and Chinese, with intro level in middle school (it’s a 6-12 school) and then full credit classes in HS. D chose Japanese because she finds it lyrical, and she prefers that teacher over the Chinese one. She is working on Spanish through the website/app Duolingo, which was suggested by a friend who speaks 5 or 6 languages and uses Duolingo to improve. It’s good enough that she can converse to a small extent with her Hispanic classmates in their native language. </p>
<p>My niece is a Spanish and French teacher at the HS level. She began with French in middle school and went all the way through her senior year. As a junior she tested out of Spanish 1 & 2 through self-study and added Spanish 3 her senior year. She took both in college. It depends on what you want to do, but as many have said before me, an 8th grader will likely change her mind many times before deciding on a major or career, so when “we” chose HER language, keep that in mind.</p>
<p>I let my kids choose whatever language they were interested in studying. Both girls chose French and studied 5 years, 8th grade through AP level, son chose German and studied 4 years. He did take Japanese in college and studied abroad in Japan. Sadly, our HS did not offer Latin.</p>
<p>Depending on how much work leadership is, it looks like she will have 5 academic courses, so I don’t think orchestra would add that much work, I suspect she already practices the violin at home.</p>
<p>Yes, I meant to put in a plug for orchestra too. I think the camaraderie is really helpful. My younger son actually was in two high school orchestras the entire time he was in high school and started the day at 7:00 am. He actually had plenty of free time.</p>
<p>What is Pre-AP? Just another word for Honors?</p>
<p>I’m not a parent and perhaps don’t see your goals but I’d say don’t overwhelm her. Does she really need to take a Leadership class? If she likes playing violin and wants to continue, I’d say it’s probably the better bet to drop that for violin. She also doesn’t need to be in Honors (or “Pre-AP”) everything. </p>
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<p>She can study those if she wants, but I question both the practicality and the level to which she’ll learn either. Chances are something like Russian or Arabic if they’re options would be more practical, and if not Spanish or French would still be better bets and more likely to be learned in high school to a useful level. However, it’s unlikely that she’ll ever have a very practical use for knowing any language other than English. </p>
<p>I took Latin, because while I can probably learn to read/write and comprehend in another language if I tried to, I think I’m just missing the part of my brain that will ever allow me to speak another language. If your daughter suffers from the same (you may not even know) trying to take a language other than Latin will probably be endlessly frustrating as those classes often involve speaking. </p>
<p>Yeah, I don’t see the need for a leadership class. What is that anyway?</p>
<p>Any of those languages sound fine. I’d let her pick. If it weren’t a new school, you could find out which one has the best teacher. My kids’ school has a hard working, charismatic teacher for one language and so it is really popular.</p>
<p>And let her take orchestra. She likes it, and it will be a good way for her to make friends and find her social niche. </p>
<p>fwiw at our high schools kids go from 9 to 4 officially, but athletes start at 630 or 700, swimmers even earlier, and some athletes stay later. </p>
<p>My kids’ HS offers “pre-AP” courses also (no Honors so yes…similar). In their case it means “harder than normal class” and if they move on to the AP, or advanced course in that subject a “B” in pre-AP would get them in whereas they’d need an “A” in “regular” to get in. Goes also to “rigor”, and often has kids who are a bit more interested in the subject taught.</p>
<p>My kids also both chose their language. They made their choices based on teacher rep and frankly, what their friends were taking. S switched after 8th grade (into Latin in fact), D remains with the one she started with.</p>
<p>Both kids did music, S all the way through and more than one, D finally dropped it junior year to add a second science course. S is in fact a musician, now a working one, D just enjoyed that time with friends I think.</p>
<p>I actually never worked with them on choosing courses though I’d discuss options with them if asked.</p>
<p>I just want to clarify, Leadership Class is a requirement she HAS to take because she’s already a member of the ASB Council. She doesn’t want to take it, but she has to. </p>