Christian Science Monitor: "America's indentured graduates"

<p>Congrats, Zoosermom, she's really hot right now. Some good options. Is that her first choice school, or is she still holding out for one?</p>

<p>zoozermom, That is wonderful. Congratulations! We had a look at Rider. When we saw it, it was just before they broke ground to make their improvements. We got to see a very old dorm. I hope those are no longer offered to students. We just could not put our son into that tiny, tiny room. He would have needed to use a car trunk for additional closet space, and he does not need much. BTW, this is a school, IMO, that does require a car.</p>

<p>She loved Rider as did we for various reasons. Her totally first choice is Moravian, but I can't see her getting money there and we simply can not afford that or allow her to drown in debt (thus my appreciation for this thread). I suspect that if she gets into the five-year master's program at Plattsburgh that's where she will go because it makes so much practical sense. I'm just so grateful and humble right now. I know these aren't top schools, but she is a girl who hasn't had an easy time and who would be eaten alive at a school with a student body that is very competitive. I learned here at CC how to help her make choices and I think she made good ones for her. This is a day for great gratitude for me. and relief.</p>

<p>
[quote]
you brought up a very important point regarding merit aid. It can cause a lot of stress if you are counting on it and your kid loses it. All too possible in our situaton, if he should be so lucky to get any.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well that is just it. Families with high efcs, who are not getting much in grants, are counting on the merit aid. If I had a kid who was able to get a full ride, then I would not worry about keeping aid. That B-B+ student might lose it though, and then who picks up those pieces? Mom and dad will pay even if the kid transfers out, b/c another school (ie: state school) might not accept all of the credits taken. Either way, the parents will pay a lot more.</p>

<p>Northeastmom, when we saw it, I believe the construction was done because the campus looked wonderful. No character, but bright, open and new. The dorms seemed comparable to everywhere else she looked (except Moravian which were teeeeensy). I totally agree about a car, though, and that is a consideration. Although we have an old car that runs well and that we don't use because I almost never drive.</p>

<p>zoozermom, That is so nice. I am so happy for you and your D. I understand the feeling of relief. It sounds like your D has some good match schools that are affordable. It is so much better to be happy and feel successful than to over shoot, and go into something too competitive, and wind up retaking classes, struggling, and even dropping out. In my opinion, happiness comes first.</p>

<p>I just read your post about the dorms (we were cross posting). That is great. We saw some really old bad dorms. We also new major construction was going to be in the works. They let us know when we were touring.</p>

<p>No loans here! One down (almost, currently in Florence on the college's nickel), and one to go (fingers crossed).</p>

<p>^ On the school's dime? Really? Anyway, I hope that you have a wonderful time, and that Mrs. Mini feels great!</p>

<p>Thanks, she's much looking forward to it. Talked to D today, as soon as we leave she's headed to Athens and Crete. We can't say enough about how well her college has treated her (and us), and are extremely grateful.</p>

<p>Sure $20,00 debt is not much more than a car loan these days (well, some people's cars, not ours!) but suppose the new grad. actually needs to purchase a car for themselves plus the loan plus living expenses in general?</p>

<p>Our best friends sent their D to a well known southern LAC (both parents alma mater) with their blessings and full financial support. D had been rejected from our flagship state u and got no merit money at the LAC. She was accepted at other "lower tier" state u's. They were sure the "name" of the LAC would provide her with better job opportunities. They also bought her a brand new SUV and made the payments and insurance for her. The D loved the school and enjoyed every minute. Parents were proud that she was at their LAC alma mater and sometimes made off-hand disparaging remarks about her friends who went to state u.</p>

<p>4 years and well over $100,000 later, D graduates and moves back in with parents to begin job search. After a year at home she finally found a job. It's nothing outstanding, a basic entry level job that could have been easily attained with a degree from anywhere. D moved out of the house to an apt. for awhile has recently purchased a small condo.
She can't afford to live by herself, hates having a roommate but has no choice. She also needs to replace her 6 year old suv but can't afford to.</p>

<p>The parents have been very distressed over the whole situation. They really thought their investment was going to reap more financial rewards in the form of some great job for their D. Their younger S is now attending an in-state public u.</p>

<p>So the "fit" and "happiness" factor for them was definitely great all around during the college years but the post-graduation real life has not been as rosy.</p>

<p>She also needs to replace her 6 year old suv but can't afford to.</p>

<p>I got distracted by this- why would you need to replace a 6 year old car?
( I also can't imagine taking a year to find a job- I wonder if she had, had to be paying her own rent, she would have found one sooner)</p>

<p>I am dismayed by the unaffordability of our state universities for so many students. State universities are constantly underfunded by state legislatures. On top of that money is spent on merit scholarships and honor programs rather than taking care of our students who need financial assistance.</p>

<p>EK, the 6 year old suv has LOTS of miles due to many long trips in college (long distance internship, etc) plus it's not one of the most dependable brands and has had lots of problems lately. The D's job requires her to make the trip to company headquarters 4 hours away with some regularity and the Mom is very worried about her traveling alone so often on what she believes to be an unreliable vehicle. </p>

<p>Yes, we (neighbors/friends) wondered about the job hunt too. I truly believe that they thought she was going to be offered some kind of great and exciting job rather than the mundane office administrative asst. job and just kept waitng for that to happen which it never did. </p>

<p>I vivdly recall the Mom commenting to me (while the D was still in school) that a bank manager in town had told the D she could come to work for him when she graduated. The Mom sniffed and said "We didn't pay $100,000+ for her schooling so she could go to work in a bank." I think they just had very unrealistic expectations. The D's major was Communications/Political Sci.</p>

<p>Packmom, I know of a guy who just graduated. He did end up as a bank teller, with promises of promotion. Yes, that was over $100,000 later, but not a "name LAC", just from an LAC.</p>

<p>Packmom, Have you noticed how many families spend more than they can afford on kid #1, and there is little left for kid #2, and 3?</p>

<p>I also wondered about the SUV, and also that it's such a hardship to share a condo with a roomie. It sounds like it's not the LAC or the price that was the problem, but the unreasonable expectations of life afterwards.</p>

<p>My D graduated from a well-known LAC two plus years ago. We scrimped to pay for it. She had a wonderful experience, life changing, we all agree. Now, she shares an apt with a roomie, and works raising money for the environment door to door. It doesn't require a degree, much less the fancy, expensive one she has. But, neither she nor we feel disappointed, or that we didn't get what we paid for. She doesn't expect a certain style of life, and we don't expect a return on an " investment". She grew into the person she is while she is there, and she is frugally self-supporting now. Seems all good to us.</p>

<p>padad, My S's state u has recently started a new program for low income students. If they qualify academically for admission and meet the parameters of the program (yearly income divided by # of family members kind of thing), The university guarantees to cover coa all 4 years with financial aid and grants/work study and a maximum of 10,000 loan debt at the end of 4 years. It sounds like a great program for those who might otherwise not be able to attend college. I hope other schools will do something similiar.</p>

<p>It's been a few years since this D graduated. She will be 26 in Jan. so has now been in a roommate situation for almost 8 years and is tired of the lack of privacy. Also since she bought the condo she is finding out that being an owner is much different than being a renter. Her younger roommate is still into more of the party scene and friends her age are mostly married or soon to be or have other living arrangements.</p>

<p>I didn't mean to imply that the LAC edu. was not worth the price paid for the experience if you can swing it. This family just expected a different outcome for some reason. The Mom majored in accounting and secured a job with a big 10 accounting firm before graduating so was shocked that the D had such a hard time landing an "appropriate" job. </p>

<p>Garland, congrats to your D for being frugal and self supporting while doing something worthwhile. </p>

<p>My friend's D was known to tell her Mom that she often felt like the "poorest kid at her school" and this was a girl driving a brand new suv, spending a semester abroad, joining a sorority and footing no cost of her education. These people are not super rich but apparantly the D ran with a lot of well-to-do students at her school and developed a warped sense of entitlement that she did not have prior to college. She is a nice young woman who just expected too much.</p>

<p>My son is working in a position where you don't need a degree. Lives with us because he can't afford his own place and a car. He has a used car that takes up much of his income. Not different from many kids we know, even some from ivies. Those with great jobs tend to have an insider to pull them in, or a major that is in demand. A general liberal arts degree is not going to bring in big buck most of the time. The biggest transition in raising kids is the one out of your pocket, and it is a tough one. Much of that has to do with expectations. Even with our son, I am not wild about him living in questionable neighborhoods that are quite dangerous. Yet, when I was out of school, I lived in some raunchy places before I could finally afford something decent. I packed my lunch, lived on a bus line. When we spoil are kids so terribly in home life and in college (that meal card is a deadly habit to break), no wonder neither we nor the kids are going to accept living close to poverty level which is where many of us were when we finished college. I know I blame myself for much of my son's situation.</p>

<p>*The emperor has no clothes... * Sorry if this sounds rude, but what are these kids and a parents thinking of, going into massive debt or spending retirement funds so Jr. or Princess can get a liberal's arts degree at a life-changing college, then the kiddo living at home a year to settle for a bank teller's job? </p>

<p>Me, if Jr. said he wanted to major in English, I would say fine if it is a double major with Accounting. No living at home being a bank teller, with a decent Accounting degree. If Princess said she wanted a life-changing college experience, I would say fine, get the bank teller's job and live at home before college for a few years, then help pay for your own life changing, you will really be motivated to change it by then to something better for sure.</p>

<p>Well, like I said, my "life changed, LAC grad poli sci major" is living independently. No princess here, she pays her own bills. You don't have to be an accountant if you can change the other variable--what kind of lifestyle you expect.</p>