Chronicle of Higher Ed: Black Graduates Owe More Debt

<p>Mom2CK, she is finishing her freshman year at University of Alabama (Tus). I have no idea how they will pay for med school. She only received a few thousand in grants (no merit). Extremely poor planning, I know. If only they would listen to me. </p>

<p>Our family was poor growing up, we are now all middle class, but most of us have poor spending habits (no real role model for good financial sense - parents never graduated from high school, we were on welfare, etc.) Somehow (by the grace of God), we all went to college (only one did not graduate).</p>

<p>I suppose my niece’s example is one of the reasons why my school district is making a financial literacy class mandatory for HS freshmen. People can be clueless about making good financial decisions - even the middle class and especially if you were not raised that way (but not necessarily).</p>

<p>It’s also why we need much more stringent regulations on college borrowers. Across America there are many, many families in similar positions.</p>

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<p>Even worse for her career goals, SM is generally not generally considered a ‘rigorous’ major by grad schools – plenty of recruited athletes in that major; thus another ding to her post-BA chances. IMO, niece should enroll in a GA community college and transfer to Athens at the first opportunity.</p>

<p>*Mom2CK, she is finishing her freshman year at University of Alabama (Tus). I have no idea how they will pay for med school. She only received a few thousand in grants (no merit). Extremely poor planning, I know. If only they would listen to me. *</p>

<p>Oh dear! She’s borrowing unnecessarily. There is NO reason to be concerned with Sports Med as an undergrad. That can all be taught in med school and residency. As much as I love Bama, it pains me to see a promising young person burden herself with debt unnecessarily when she had good options instate - especially with HOPE. </p>

<p>I don’t know how strong her parents’ credit is, but many parents find out that they can’t keep qualifying for more and more loans. Each year the loan they take out is a ding to their credit rating. Many parents don’t think about that. They’re only thinking of what their credit score is right now…before any of these loans are taken. </p>

<p>My best wishes for your dear niece. In the meantime, encourage her to apply for Bama scholarships that are offered to returning students. :)</p>

<p>Simply joining ROTC doesn’t cover your tuition and fees, Chimichonga. You have to apply for a 3-year ROTC scholarship. They are competitive, although the competition really depends on the branch (the Air Force ones are the most competitive; the Army ones are the least; the Navy’s are somewhere in between). ROTC gives everyone the stipend (between $200 and $450 a month depending on what year you are in) but not everyone gets the tuition coverage; that’s a scholarship.</p>

<p>I think it’s false to say that UA graduates have poor prospects for jobs simply because it’s not that highly-ranked; especially if grads intend to stay in the South, Alabama has a lot of cred around there. It may not be hot stuff in the Northeast because of the prevalance of expensive private colleges, but in the South almost everyone goes to one of their state’s flagship schools. </p>

<p>I think that black students, on average, find themselves (ourselves, I suppose, for I am black) in the kind of position that this poster’s niece has found herself in, precisely because the parents of black students are less likely to be college educated and have a knowledge of the way the system works. In the U.S. only 25% of the people over age 25 have bachelor’s degrees; for African Americans, however, that proportion goes down to 18%. And that’s including people in my generation; in my parents’ generation (they graduated from high school in 1979) college was a pipe dream; anything beyond vocational/technical training or maybe a few community college classes was a pipe dream, really. And if they DID go, they were far more likely to go to their local community college or public regional.</p>

<p>So you have a generation of parents who - even if they are middle class - aren’t as equipped to advise their children on the application process as their more highly-educated white peers. So you get situations like this - where a student thinks they have to major in sports medicine at the undergrad level to do it at the grad level, or a student thinks they have to be a biology major to go into medicine even if they hate biology, or thinks they have to be pre-law to go to law school (it took me almost a full year to convince my fiance’s younger sister that it’d be in her best interests NOT to major in “pre-law” to prepare for law school; I don’t even think “pre-law” was offered as a major at her uni).</p>

<p>I think that black families also have a more pre-professional focus when it comes to college; it’s not about discovering yourself and doing what you love (as a lot of white families have come to view college after generations of experience with it) but the see it as an expensive thing and thus it needs to be job preparation. I’ve dealt with a lot of black friends whose parents “sent them to college to be” something - a lawyer, a doctor, a dentist…I remember suggesting teaching to one of my friends who liked kids and she said something like “Yeah, my parents will just say ‘we didn’t send you to college to be a teacher’.” My fiance’s parents were also dismayed when they found out from him that he wanted to be a teacher; previously he was going to be an aerospace engineer and that was worthy to them, but teaching? (Especially because he’s male.)</p>

<p>We also on average have far less wealth, own homes less, own our own cars less, and generally have fewer experiences on which we’re educated in debt management. To someone who doesn’t really understand debt it may be difficult to fathom the difference between a $30,000 loan (manageable) and a $60,000 loan (a burden). Our families also have some wildly disproportionate notions about the kind of success college brings you; I have people in my family who are convinced that I’m going to be “making bank” simply because I have a college degree (or even with a PhD as a professor), so they may encourage their children to take out large loans to go to ‘good’ schools (or even mediocre schools) thinking that their kids may have no problems paying it back.</p>

<p>So yeah, this ignorance (and not self-imposed; black people have been kept out of colleges and owning things until relatively recently in history) in a variety of areas contributes to the higher amounts of debt in black students, I think.</p>

<p>juillet, i couldn’t have said it better myself. I am so blessed to have experienced the college admission process myself and also found this website. My daughter will be much more informed when her turn arrives.</p>

<p>Same here - my parents didn’t go to college, but I feel like between this site, SAT tutoring in college, and my own experience I am equipped with so much more information for my own children.</p>

<p>Too many junk colleges</p>

<p>Too many kids with junk high school education, little ambition, but want to go</p>

<p>Too many high priced college administrators</p>

<p>Too few getting majors in subjects that promise much of a future to start</p>

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<p>There are so many colleges that put buildings around a quadrangle and charge $40K per year (at least that is the sticker). These colleges were nothing 25 years ago, but now since everyone wants to GO to college that VERY EXPENSIVE expererience can be HAD by all. I’m sorry but kids who are scoring under 500 in the SAT’s shouldn’t have the expectation that they can just take their failed HS education and go on to college. But they do and colleges are willing to loan them the money to do it. My guess its the kids who aren’t very good students are those taking on the most debt. I read that the average graduate at Eastern Nazarene College ends up $40K in debt. YIKES !!! That is an awfully, big debt load for a rather worthless degree. </p>

<p>There are about 300 colleges that are worthwhile. After those I think that everyone would be best served to go to community college, save some money and get a job.</p>

<p>What are the junk colleges that I am referring; Southern New Hampshire University, University of New Haven, College of New England, University of Phoenix etc. Essentially if I get unsolicited mail from a college, in almost all cases its a junk school. The good schools are selective, the junk schools are solicitous.</p>

<p>I would not recommend over the Stafford loan limit for anything below the lower Ivies in rankings. Getting a degree from a state school or from a lower-ranked LAC might be beneficial for certain majors (engineering and nursing are the ones that spring to mind), but for degrees that are less in demand going to a lower Ivy actually closes doors. When a private school is searching for an English teacher, they’re not going to hire the student who went from CC to commuting to Podunk State U unless that student also had significant wroking experience. But for the first job, alma mater and gpa is everything and even though you might have the same talents as an Ivy Leaguer the fact that you don’t have that pedigree AND no record of experience will make most employers look at you with a critical eye.</p>

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<p>Ridiculous. Even Harvard solicits sometimes. it’s called Yield Management; learn what you’re talking about before you mislead people.</p>

<p>Bedouin,</p>

<p>I do know what I talk about. Sure Harvard SELECTIVELY solicits, they were at an open house at Phillips Exeter last week. But they are not sending the junk mail to students as other colleges are doing.</p>

<p>So I reject your insinuation that Harvard (and other prestigious schools) send mailings to encourage students to apply while intending to reject them to increase their yield.</p>

<p>I would not recommend over the Stafford loan limit for anything below the lower Ivies in rankings.</p>

<p>Bodoiun, then why did you recommend to Sofaraway to take out huge loans for Seattle U? You said it was worth it?</p>

<p>Oh Bedouin…for heaven’s sake…what is a “lower Ivy”? Your notion that loans for “prestige name schools” is alright while loans for other school is not…is poppycock. Students really should limit their loan liability to the Stafford limit REGARDLESS of where they attend college.</p>

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<p>Umm, that is what Marketing is ALL about. ALL colleges that market recognize that their shotgun, mass mail approach will result in applicants who have zero chance of admission, but will apply anyway. For example, sending materials to all SAT scorers with a 2200+ will mean some of those students have slacker gpa’s, or have been suspended for major violations. In reality, what the college is seeking is that diamond in the rough, or an interest from someone who would have not thought of them before, particularly those in undersrved areas.</p>

<p>Thus, it’s not “insinuation” but fact.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t recommend taking out more than Staffords either, but unfortunately most students would be extremely lucky if that was all they had to do.</p>

<p>Yes ALL colleges market. At this point my Jr. daughter has not heard from UMass, Harvard, BU, BC, Tufts, Northeastern, Wellesley, Bentley, Brandeis, MIT or UNH. </p>

<p>She has heard from all kinds of 3rd or 4th tier colleges (which I refer to as junk colleges). My point was that the elite colleges DON’T intentionally have marketing campaigns specifically designed to get students to apply just so they can reject them.</p>

<p>That of course, IMHO.</p>

<p>My point was that the elite colleges DON’T intentionally have marketing campaigns specifically designed to get students to apply just so they can reject them.</p>

<p>You haven’t met WashU…</p>

<p>^ Ditto </p>

<p>WashU and USC are a few examples of schools that play the US News game well to improve their rankings disingenuously.</p>

<p>I agree with julliet’s post (#45). There are black parents who view college as a means to obtain a better and more prestigious job (lawyer, banker, accountant, doctor). </p>

<p>This pre-professional mindset is misleading and dangerous. I know my parents worry about my career aspirations because I’m not following the “prestige” path.</p>

<p>I may continue my education beyond my master’s. Life is too short to follow what others believe you should do – pursue your dreams.</p>

<p>^^ USC? The one in California or South Carolina.</p>

<p>Thanks for the better information about certain “rogue” universities. The Ivies don’t have to play those games … but the Ivy-wannabees certainly might.</p>

<p>On a side note, what would happen if the Ivy league announced they wanted to expand (ala Big 10, Big 12, SEC, etc.)? Wouldn’t that be interesting to see which colleges jumped up to get in?</p>

<p>I was referring to Southern California. Clemson is another school that modifies its numbers to improve its USNews ranking.</p>