<p>New article by Kim Clark at US News shows for-profit colleges are twice as likely to leave students with "dangerous" levels of debt:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Almost 30 percent of seniors at for-profit universities in 2008 owed at least $40,000 in college loans, an amount that could be excessive, according to a new analysis of the latest federal data by Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of Finaid.org and Fastweb.com. For comparison, only about 11 percent of seniors at private nonprofit collegesmany of which charge higher sticker prices than typical for-profitsgraduate with excessive debt, Kantrowitz found. And excessive debt was a problem for only about 6 percent of seniors at public universities, which are typically comparatively lower priced.
<p>with the raise of the stafford limits from $3500 to 5500 (sub plus unsub)
for freshman year, we will see debt rising quickly across the board at most
colleges and for most finaid recips. Just that raise will result in an $8,000
raise in debt. A few years ago a good loan package was around $20,000,
it is now around $30,000 - a 33% rise in just a few years. The numbers on
this probably won’t be available for a year or two.
The idea that for profit institutions are worse in debt creation is probably false. Many
non profits keep their loans at $30.000 or so and then gap so that parents
are forced to borrow to make up the difference. I suspect the real debt
for most finaid families is closer to $50,000 at many mainstream American schools.</p>
<p>Schools like National University or University of Phoenix are prime examples of for profit colleges that a lot of people attend while working full-time at other jobs. I’ve known people who have gone to these places and graduate with mounds of debt. Some don’t graduate and still have mounds of debt.</p>
<p>Are the for profit universities like U of Phoenix considered equal to standard state schools, or privates? I’d always assumed that colleges like U Phoenix that advertise on TV were more similar to community college.</p>
<p>Website says the numbers are from the dept of education. Looking at some of the top schools (e.g. Full Sail Real World Education), I’d guess it includes private loans.</p>
<p>That list isn’t what I first thought you were talking about. Its mostly Culinary and tech schools, etc. I was curious about a different list I guess, lol.</p>
<p>According to the “USN&WR Ultimate College Guide (2009)”, the highest average debt (I think for 2007 graduates) at national universities for graduates are at…
Seton Hall $41,378
Worcester Tech $37,784
Clark Atlanta $35,909
Some others…
NYU $33,637
Case Western $32,195
George Washington $30,817</p>
<p>What do we make of a place like Clark Atlanta University? They state that 96% of their graduates borrowed that average amount of $35,909. Now factor in that they report their four year graduation rate is 23%, rising to 44% within six years. How many of their students never graduate, and yet have debt of $20,000 or $30,000 or $40,000?
I would love to see mandatory reporting at four year colleges something like this…
“Students who enrolled in the last ten years had a 38% chance of graduating within 4 years, a 46% chance of graduating within six years, and a 50% chance of never graduating anywhere at all. Students who graduated left with average debt of $30,000, and those who never graduated were left with average debt of $23,000.”
Our society seems to value college access and attendance as an unquestioned positive. A minimal level of consumer information makes sense to me.
There are plenty of colleges that prey on first generation college students for the Pell and loan money. I don’t want to pick on Clark Atlanta University in particular. But this is an industry largely without morals. Wouldn’t you suppose that educators would want to highlight those who end up with heavy debt and no degree? I’ve never heard of these people being mentioned, much less of a movement rallying in their support. These are debts that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy and can even be deducted from Social Security checks.
On the numbers, it would be a social good if much of the industry disappeared. But of course, this is not the thrust of government policy.</p>
<p>Good old Sandy Baum in the USN&WR article approvingly says that Georgia State is cheaper than for profit alternatives. She fails to mention (according to the 2009 USN&WR Ultimate College Guide) that the school meets an average 28% of need. Or that the four year graduation rate is 16%. There is no average graduate debt reported, which tells me that they likely failed to report this in their Common Data Set, if they submitted one.
I can’t see why state schools or not-for-profits should get a pass on this.</p>
<p>But unlike NYU, GW has good financial aid. Need-based, though. Even their merit awards are need-aware. Alas, someone has to fill that niche. Too bad it’s STILL a rich campus.</p>
<p>Debt needs to be looked at within the context of major and employ-ability. WPI is on the list, but the average starting salary of its engineers is considerable. Rack up debt as a history or social services major = courting disaster.</p>
Absolutely. The stupidity of our current student loan arrangement (ie: can not be wiped during bankruptcy) will continually allow lenders to prey on stupid kids that want underwater basket weaving degrees. Kids on the hook with 100K debt and 30K/year income potential.</p>
<p>I’m with you all the way! That for-profit career and tech schools often result in massive student debt is not news. What would be news would be a report that these bleed-em-even-if-they-can’t-earn-a-diploma places had been put out of business.</p>
<p>Better yet, news of an effective national policy that provides for decent secondary education and job training for the not-ready-for-Harvard-or-even-State-U crowd.</p>
<p>Happy, I agree – the 2% of the kids from my affluent suburban school who do not attend 4 years school go to either the local CC or the County trade school. Every kid I know who has gone there has ended up with a good job/career, without any significant debt. Its the kids whose parents don’t know any better, who are preyed on by the for-profits.</p>
<p>Flight time is very expensive. Jet time especially, sometimes jet engine time can go upwards nearly 1k an hour.</p>
<p>… I was considering commercial aviation when I realized that what I would make as a start off first officer in regionals wouldn’t even be close to what I paid in tuition.</p>