Civil Engineering is hazardous to your career prospects

[ken285]

<p>

1. The construction labors are hammered pretty bad because they are mostly unionized.
   Union = overpay -> destruction of businesses. Don’t believe me? Look at UAW and how they destroyed auto industry.

</p>

<p>Then everyone will just go non-union. Last year, I heard rumors about a lot of the major general contractors considering taking non-union jobs because of the economy. I’ve also seen discussions about going non-union on an online construction forum. It’s not like non-union jobs don’t exist in the U.S.</p>

<p>As for which branches of civil engineering are related to construction, I’d say the vast majority of them are. Wouldn’t water resources depend on the budget allocated to the USACE? Some traffic engineering might not be affected as
much; the firm I used to work for is doing quite well right now and has expanded to other cities in the past year or two.</p>

[rheidzan]

<p>

I’m skeptical of studies of projected job growth based on baby boomer retirement. It may not happen as quickly as these studies forecast. There are several factors to be considered, such as job loss over the past decade leading to the need for additional time in the workforce to make up for lost salary; the need to earn additional money in anticipation of less Social Security and/or Medicare money available; the need to earn additional money to cover debts. These people will eventually leave the workforce, but the rate at which they go may be slower than expected, thus making it a more competitive landscape for people entering the field.</p>

<p>There is also the issue that companies will require more work, but be reluctant to hire many more people, so the people who are already working will just be required to work longer hours. People will eventually leave those jobs due to attrition, burnout, retirement, etc., but at a possibly slower rate than is being forecast.

YOu just hit the nail… </p>

<p>

As for which branches of civil engineering are related to construction, I’d say the vast majority of them are. Wouldn’t water resources depend on the budget allocated to the USACE? Some traffic engineering might not be affected as
much; the firm I used to work for is doing quite well right now and has expanded to other cities in the past year or two.

USACOE is just one of agencies who employ water resources engineers. Think state, water districts, smaller water districts, cities, utility companies and aggricultural industry. There will always be a need for water resources b/c gov’t regulations are always changing and people always need water. Another industry that’s doing quite well is environmental. People can’t stop doing no 2…
The industry is always in need of people, but the thing is we import to many friggin engineers from chna and india, and pay them cheap.</p>

<p>

For every FIVE people leaving the industry, only ONE new person enters it.

Citation?</p>

<p>

Our infrastructure is literally crumbling, and we WILL be forced to replace it as it erodes, otherwise the country will no longer function.

Here’s my response, which is a comment on the article:

This article also doesn’t consider the fact that civil engineering is an exceptionally capital dependant industry, meaning that if private industry and local/federal government bodies aren’t investing in infrastructure - whether it be housing, commercial buildings, roads, bridges, and so on - then the civil engineering industry can basically come to a grinding halt.

There is no money to finance the projects. A trend that I’m seeing in the future is the rise of PPP in the US because our gov’t can’t finance these projects anymore. </p>

<p>Here’s another comment from the usnews article:

70,000 new jobs really isn’t that many if you think about it for a minute. That’s basically a big football stadium spread out across an entire country of 300 million people. That would be around 140 new jobs per state per year over a decade if their projection is accurate. There are so many colleges and technical schools nationwide now offering degrees in civil engineering, civil engineering technology, and construction management, to name a similar few, that there couldn’t possibly be a looming shortage of qualified people.

Totally agree with this. I heard that Cal Poly has 1300 freakin civil engineering students ([Cal</a> Poly Pomona Civil Engineering](<a href=“http://www.csupomona.edu/~ce/]Cal”>http://www.csupomona.edu/~ce/)). It’s the largest undergrad ce program in the nation. Assuming 50% attrition rate, that means 650 will be graduating within 4 years time span. That’s just one school. Do you see what’s wrong with this picture? I say if this is the case, the state has to up the requirements for PE from just having a bs to ms.</p>

[ken285]

<p>Well how many civil engineering graduates are there each year in the country?</p>

[MaineLonghorn]

<p>ken285, sorry I missed your earlier question about work in Maine. The people I’ve talked to are busy. One large AE firm in Portland has been so overloaded that they have used DH and me three times in the last three months. When a potential client called with work that we were too busy to handle, we referred him to another firm. He called back to say that they were also too busy, so he just waited until we could fit him into our schedule. Maine is not a very big place (1.3 million people total), and we know of several structural engineers who have retired lately, so that is probably a factor in why we’re busy.</p>

<p>DH also recently became a part-time employee of a large Texas firm that does work for insurance companies all over the country. When they get work in the northeast, which is quite often, they ask him to fly to the site to perform an inspection and write a report. They would hire him fulltime if he wanted, but he wants to keep designing new structures on his own. They are paying him his regular consulting rate, so it’s a great deal for us.</p>

[yagottabelieve]

<p>MaineLonghorn,</p>

<p>Perhaps you could comment on how a new civil engineering grad might set up a business in Maine (or elsewhere) to pick up some of the work you and your colleagues are too busy to do. Or what criteria you would use to refer one of your clients to another business. Also how many such businesses you think the Maine economy is likely to support given the current economic conditions.</p>

<p>On a somewhat related note, there seem to be a lot of commercials on business cable channels these days touting the attractiveness of Michigan for (new) businesses.</p>

[MaineLonghorn]

<p>yagottabelieve, a new grad would have to be employed by a firm, at least long enough to get a PE license. I would also encourage him/her to get a job on a construction site before starting a business. For example, DH was in charge of quality control on a project at the Brunswick Naval Air Station for a couple of years. At that point, he thought he was ready to set up shop, but I told him I didn’t think he’d worked on a wide enough variety of projects. So he took a job as Director of Engineering for a couple of more years, while we talked to LOTS of engineers as well as an accountant and attorney about what’s required to start a business. We saved money and bought a plotter and computers while we waited. We also had to buy professional liability insurance, which along with health insurance is our biggest expense each year.</p>

<p>Maine is such a small place that we know the other engineers pretty well and have actually worked with/for quite a few of them. We refer clients to the ones who are thoughtful and provide clear construction documents.</p>

<p>I don’t know how many more businesses could be supported right now. I don’t expect a flood of engineers anytime soon, so I imagine whoever is interested would have a good shot.</p>

[aibarr]

<p>ML, do you all do your own drafting or do you outsource that?</p>

[MaineLonghorn]

<p>I do it all, because I’m weird and love doing AutoCAD! It’s just plain fun to me. DH loves it, because he can scribble up details and I know him well enough I can make sense of them. It’s my feeling that clients can’t judge our engineering skills, but they can sure judge us based on how sharp and error-free the drawings are, so it’s worth my time to make them as perfect as possible.</p>

<p>A couple of times, I’ve been out of the country for several weeks and we HAD to outsource CAD work to a company across town. Ack, what a nightmare. I gave them EXPLICIT directions about fonts, line weights, standards, etc. The drawings came out looking pretty sad. There aren’t many contract CAD technicians around here, so we don’t have much choice in people to use.</p>

[NegativeSlope]

<p>

I heard that Cal Poly has 1300 freakin civil engineering students (Cal Poly Pomona Civil Engineering). It’s the largest undergrad ce program in the nation. Assuming 50% attrition rate, that means 650 will be graduating within 4 years time span. That’s just one school. Do you see what’s wrong with this picture?

So that’s why civil engineers have the highest unemployment rate of all majors (a few majors have a higher unemployment rate on that list, but I didn’t count them because they all have small sample sizes, making the rates not statistically significant):</p>

<p><a href="http://www..com/unemployment_by_major.php3%5B/url%5D">http://www..com/unemployment_by_major.php3</a></p>

<p>Things are more gloomy at a rival school across town from here. Resumes are referred to as “lotto tickets”, getting an interview is “getting the mega number right”, and getting a job offer or internship is called “hitting the jackpot”. Looks like the truth is pretty close (note: this includes people with lots of work experience, and they’re far more likely to get hired than recent college grads):</p>

<p>[Landing</a> a job like getting into Harvard - CNN.com](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINION/11/06/stimulus.jobs/index.html]Landing”>Landing a job like getting into Harvard - CNN.com)
edit: Why is “students****review” censored?</p>

[aibarr]

<p>They have the highest unemployment rate <em>right now</em>. Y’all can think whatever you please, though, I know I’m not going to change your mind. You’re not really looking at the entire picture, though.</p>

[Experiment8]

<p>the website negativeslope cites is ridiculous at best; I know things like rankings can be very subjective, but some of theirs are quite puzzling… Here’s their ranking for “top 50 engineering schools” this month:
<a href="http://www..com/top_engineering_schools_ranking.html%5B/url%5D">http://www..com/top_engineering_schools_ranking.html</a></p>

<h1>School #Svys</h1>

<p>Score
1 Colgate University<br>
10<br>
32.6 32.6
2</p>

<p>University of Missouri Columbia<br>
9<br>
32.1 32.1
3</p>

<p>Mississippi State University<br>
20<br>
31.1 31.1
4</p>

<p>Dartmouth College<br>
12<br>
31.0 31.0
5</p>

<p>Bradley University<br>
7<br>
30.6 30.6
6</p>

<p>Princeton University<br>
13<br>
29.9 29.9
7</p>

<p>Bellevue University<br>
7<br>
29.8 29.8
8</p>

<p>Lafayette College<br>
10<br>
29.7 29.7
9</p>

<p>State University of New York Maritime College<br>
7<br>
29.5 29.5
10</p>

<p>Villanova University<br>
16<br>
29.5 29.5</p>

<p>11</p>

<p>Lehigh University<br>
27<br>
29.3 29.3
12</p>

<p>Texas A&M University at College Station<br>
55<br>
29.1 29.1
13</p>

<p>Utah State University<br>
9<br>
29.1 29.1
14</p>

<p>University of Dayton<br>
18<br>
29.1 29.1
15</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd College<br>
20<br>
29.0 29.0
16</p>

<p>Purdue University<br>
67<br>
28.9 28.9
17</p>

<p>United States Air Force Academy<br>
11<br>
28.8 28.8
18</p>

<p>Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University<br>
12<br>
28.8 28.8
19</p>

<p>Cedarville University<br>
9<br>
28.7 28.7
20</p>

<p>Michigan State University<br>
29<br>
28.6 28.6</p>

<p>21</p>

<p>Colorado School of Mines<br>
29<br>
28.6 28.6
22</p>

<p>Bucknell University<br>
23<br>
28.5 28.5
23</p>

<p>Clemson University<br>
29<br>
28.5 28.5
24</p>

<p>University of Missouri Rolla<br>
20<br>
28.4 28.4
25</p>

<p>Rice University<br>
28<br>
28.4 28.4
26</p>

<p>Vanderbilt University<br>
20<br>
28.4 28.4
27</p>

<p>Milwaukee School of Engineering<br>
59<br>
28.3 28.3
28</p>

<p>University of Notre Dame<br>
9<br>
28.3 28.3
29</p>

<p>Taylor University<br>
7<br>
28.3 28.3
30</p>

<p>Baylor University<br>
8<br>
28.3 28.3</p>

<p>31</p>

<p>University of Wisconsin – Madison<br>
14<br>
28.3 28.3
32</p>

<p>University of California – Irvine<br>
31<br>
28.0 28.0
33</p>

<p>Miami University<br>
7<br>
28.0 28.0
34</p>

<p>Worcester Polytechnic Institute<br>
30<br>
28.0 28.0
35</p>

<p>Kansas State University<br>
9<br>
27.9 27.9
36</p>

<p>Northwestern University<br>
23<br>
27.9 27.9
37</p>

<p>Michigan Technological University<br>
36<br>
27.9 27.9
38</p>

<p>Oregon Institute of Technology<br>
7<br>
27.9 27.9
39</p>

<p>Johns Hopkins University<br>
27<br>
27.8 27.8
40</p>

<p>Southern Methodist University<br>
10<br>
27.8 27.8</p>

<p>41</p>

<p>University of Pennsylvania<br>
9<br>
27.7 27.7
42</p>

<p>Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute<br>
78<br>
27.5 27.5
43</p>

<p>Texas Tech University<br>
23<br>
27.5 27.5
44</p>

<p>Pennsylvania State University<br>
57<br>
27.4 27.4
45</p>

<p>Washington University in St. Louis<br>
17<br>
27.3 27.3
46</p>

<p>University of Virginia<br>
24<br>
27.3 27.3
47</p>

<p>University of Minnesota – Twin Cities<br>
11<br>
27.1 27.1
48</p>

<p>Tufts University<br>
12<br>
27.1 27.1
49</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
62<br>
27.0 27.0
50</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon University</p>

[saraleigh117]

<p>just curious…won’t the baby boom generation retiring soon create many, many jobs in all sectors??</p>

[ME_76]

<p>Yes it will. I believe the NSF did a survey that shows around 40 percent of engineers in the U.S. are age 50 or older.</p>

[MaineLonghorn]

<p>Of course, a lot of baby boomers will be working a LOT longer than the previous generation. My dad is 73 and still going strong. DH is almost 56 and expects to be working a long time (we have three kids to put through college, and the youngest is only 11).</p>

<p>For both my dad and DH, they LIKE engineering (I know, weird, but true). They don’t want to retire.</p>

[rheidzan]

<p>

just curious…won’t the baby boom generation retiring soon create many, many jobs in all sectors??

They won’t. At least not for another 20 years. People are living longer nowadays.</p>

[ME_76]

<p>That is utter nonsense! Baby boomers are not going to work until they are 80. (Only a very small portion might). I realize that 401ks and investments have taken a hit recently but for someone in their 50s, they should have a large portion of their retirement in gauranteed income. The closer you get to retirement, the less stocks you should have. All engineers are not dirt poor now because of the economy. Many are still doing just fine.</p>

<p>Moreover, in the next 10 years, a large portion of engineers will be retiring.</p>

[aibarr]

<p>

They won’t. At least not for another 20 years. People are living longer nowadays.

</p>

<p>This is ridiculous. EVERY SINGLE baby boomer is not going to wait another 20 years to retire. A large number of them will be retiring at their retirement age, or they’ll be switching to a different vocation. It’s not like you sit around and twiddle your thumbs when you retire anymore… My old project manager wants to work at a library when he retires. There are a whole ton of principals at my company who are just biding their time until their children produce grandkids, and when that happens, they’re outta here. Several ducked out early over the past few years to relieve the burden on the company during the downturn, even.</p>

[saraleigh117]

<p>well hopefully in a couple of years a substantial number of them will retire, the economy will turn somewhat to the positive, and those of us just graduating will find employment.</p>

[tuttyfruit]

<p>with current weak infrastructure, wouldn’t we need more civil engineers in the future? maybe when the economy improves…</p>

<p>i keep hearing that now it’s a great time to immerse into CEE but then that’s what my school’s department/faculty keeps saying (i go to uc berkeley, arguably the top CEE school). geotechnical engineering in CA seems stable esp. because of the CA levee situation and seismic safety concerns…</p>

[rheidzan]

<p>

That is utter nonsense! Baby boomers are not going to work until they are 80.

EVERY SINGLE baby boomer is not going to wait another 20 years to retire.

[Baby</a> boomer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomer]Baby”>Baby boomers - Wikipedia)
Of course not every single bb is going to wait another 20 years. I’m merely talking about the ones who are in their late 40s to early 50s.</p>