Visited U Penn yesterday. Was somewhat surprised by references to conspicuous consumption or lack thereof.
In describing one of their students, showcased for his accomplishments, the admissions officer made a reference to the fact that in three different photos she had seen of him (in the instagram account of a club he belonged to), he had the same sweater on. What is the point of a comment like that? Is it so remarkable to wear the same sweater again? Is everyone expected to have many sweaters and not appear twice (or three times) with the same one? Are we in middle school?
Later while explaining what early decision meant, said, “if you apply early decision and we accept you, then you come here. You buy the sweatshirt.”
The sentence was jarring to me as someone who never bought a college shirt, mug or anything like that, from any of the colleges I attended. I have always been careful and it would simply never occurred to me to spend money on those things, especially as they are quite expensive. I completed undergrad + masters with 4-figure debt, worked to pay it off in 1 year, and saved for grad school, which I paid for in cash (one semester) and then transferred to another school where I got full tuition + stipend.
In all those years I lived very cheaply which is why I could afford to do all this and the same habits have allowed us to save for our dd’s college. Sometimes I wonder if she will be deprived of the skills I learned by living so thriftily. I hope there are easier ways to learn them. But even more so I hope she never takes her comforts for granted or forgets that others may not have them.
Apart from this I observed that the student who lead our campus tour, in talking about opportunities to study abroad mentioned that the nursing school had a class in which the last two weeks comprised a trip to Hong Kong working in a clinic there. However this trip was cancelled this year “because of the craziness.” I was disappointed to see that the mass movement was described as “craziness.” I would have expected better from a U Penn student.
Wondering how this compares to other elite schools?
I think buying a college sweatshirt is pretty common especially once you have decided to attend that school. Not sure why a comment about a sweatshirt is jarring. About the craziness in Hong Kong and a comment about a sweater- you seem overly critical of brief comments made in casual conversation. I don’t think these comments have anything to do with class consciousness in elite schools.
I had a friend in college whose family was so poor that she sent money home to them from her campus job. SHE had a college sweatshirt. The sweatshirt thing is not elitist at all.
Craziness in Hong Kong could very well just be how kids talk these days. I am not sure how much should be read into it. Maybe your impression came from more than just that comment but that stood out as the “reason?”
UPenn strikes me as very pre-professional and they seem to delight in the best firms lining up to snatch up their students, especially the double degree kids. Maybe it just isn’t the right place for your kid?
A student may opt to buy the sweatshirt (or any other thing) - that is not elitist. But to expect everyone to do so would be.
For the admissions officer to state that if accepted, “you will buy the T-shirt” strikes me as insensitive to those who would be daunted by the price tag. And those who may be considering the cost to the earth of buying things just for the heck of it.
I don’t understand the comment wrt pre-professional as why would that have anything to do with acknowledging class privilege.
Looks like no one here shares my concerns, or rather believes they are “non-issues” / I am “over-critical” so I will leave it there.
I can think of many reasons why UPenn might not be a good fit for some students but IMO, college sweatshirts and HK craziness comments aren’t at the top of my list.
@doschicos is absolutely right. Buying the sweatshirt comment is a euphemism for you’re all in, or welcome to the family. Now many will indeed buy the sweatshirt or a hat, but the comment was not meant to be absolutely prescriptive.
@ShamrockLotus
As discussed above, none of those statements, technically imply elitism.
However, something there must have made you uncomfortable, which is okay.
I strongly believe in Fit, and sometimes it cannot be articulated.
These days, you will find conspicuous consumption not just at Ivies, but also at big state schools. Many kids wear $1000 Canadian Goose jackets, rent luxury off-campus apartments with indoor pools, go on expensive trips, and even fast food places around college campuses are upscale ones like Panera (not McD or Taco Bell).
What am saying is, whatever you felt at Penn may be at other schools too.
Not all Penn students are wealthy, being a need-blind school, there are many students on FA. The kids will find their tribe.
I completely agree that this was the intent behind the comment.
But I also wanted to point out that when my son got in ED, my daughter bought him the Wharton hoodie from the campus bookstore. The total was $29.14 shipped to our door. Maybe she caught a sale, but I thought the price was totally reasonable. I’m pretty sure my college’s sweatshirts were quite a bit more than that back in the late 80s.
The places in which I have seen the largest number of students wearing the college sweatshirts (and other “gear”) are the large public colleges. AT UIUC they’re everywhere, and I swear that 2/3rds of the students at Ohio State are wearing OSU sweatshirts or teeshirts.
I have always considered buying a college sweatshirt part of the whole “school spirit” thing, and that seems to be a much bigger deal at colleges such as large flagships and other colleges at which sports are a big thing (like Notre Dame).
As for “craziness”, that may be a bit dismissive, but that’s not uncommon everywhere in the USA. The USA has the provincialism of all large countries, and it’s not surprising that an undergrad anywhere in the USA would use that term.
I really don’t see anything there that you wouldn’t see at almost any other college out there, “elite” or not. The only colleges at which I think you’d be more likely to have the guide talk about HK in a serious manner are the small LACs at which social activism is important. A large number of these are “elite” and populated by wealthy kids.
Stop looking for reasons to be outraged. As others have said, ED is a binding commitment and many kids do buy the sweatshirt or other college gear to signal their college commitment. It happens at every school with spirited students, not just Penn. I probably ordered a sweatshirt the same day my D received her ED acceptance. It was her favorite Christmas gift that year.
As for “craziness,” that can likely be chalked up to poor word choice and ignorance. While many young adults are eloquent, many others are not. And, no one knows how much that student knew about the HK events. All the student likely knew was, once the unrest began, Penn mandated students return from studying abroad in HK. That can seem like “craziness” to the casual observer.
Penn is a welcoming community of scholars. If you’re already irked by the people, then perhaps it’s not the place for you.
As a parent (middle class, paid my own way through school) I have taken my high achieving child to many elite schools, including Penn. And I have found veiled elitism, because let’s face it, most kids who qualify for these schools have had lots of privileges already. Not all, but most. Most striving students from humble backgrounds go to the state universities in their home states. This is a whole other level.
Let me know if you happen to come across a school of high rank where you find a different vibe.
Our state school is also good so that is a relief.
That was our first college visit so I was simply observing aloud. (As a student I did not visit any colleges and only applied to one, which was nearby and which also, unbeknownst to me, happened to be a high-ranking one.)
If we visit any more it will be interesting to compare. At UPenn they had one session which was a “Diversity Panel” and students of different backgrounds, including low-income talked about their experiences and resources available. That was reassuring - it would have been nice to see that awareness more generally and not only in the diversity panel.
“These days, you will find conspicuous consumption not just at Ivies, but also at big state schools. Many kids wear $1000 Canadian Goose jackets, rent luxury off-campus apartments with indoor pools, go on expensive trips, and even fast food places around college campuses are upscale ones like Panera (not McD or Taco Bell).”
I agree with almost everything said in this thread but found one aspect of this comment funny. I know it was about college campuses generally and not specifically Penn, but there is a McD’s on 40th & Walnut, on the diagonal corner from the Panera. So it isn’t only upscale fast casual. If you want McDonald’s, it’s there for you.
I think OP has valid concerns. I’ve never set foot on UPenn’s campus so can’t speak directly to impressions there, but my D was very much turned off at a number of peer schools by the attitudes of the not only the students but the staff.
While we as parents pointed out not to judge a schools by one or two students, D made a valid point that admission staff were hiring/training these students to represent them. In one case, the most obnoxious student actually co-presented with admissions staff in an auditorium filled with prospective students and parents so their heads couldn’t have been in the sand because they were standing right there.
IMO, with so many college options on the table, it’s perfectly fine to cross off any school because of perceived fit issues, no matter how highly ranked.
@ShamrockLotus, if you find those innocuous comments offensive, then Penn is not a good fit for you. Move on.
However, what happens if you encounter similar comments at say Florida State or Boise State, would you still think they are elitist? Looks like you are looking for grounds to dislike Penn.
You were so interested in getting what an elite school was all about that you neglected to find out the most obvious: the name of the school. It is Penn NOT UPenn. If you talked to any student, read any of the schools materials. looked on Penn’s website, observed the dreaded t-shirt (or sweatshirt), you should have noticed that the school and its students call the school PENN.