<p>I once heard somebody say that the class of '11 (h.s.) is the smallest in a while. Does anybody know if this is true? It's nice to know that college admissions will be less competitive, contrary to recent trends over the past few years.</p>
<p>^I don’t think our class will be significantly smaller, and I definitely don’t think that college admissions will be any less competitive.</p>
<p>well, this guy at my school a couple years ago (class of 2012 I think) who had a 2380 SAT, 800s on his subject tests, straight A’s with 10 APs, and great EC’s got waitlisted. He was unhooked, a white guy with no legacy or big-donating family. Gee, I’m going to have such a hard time getting in.</p>
<p>It’s not what you know but who you know. A good percentage of the seats are dedicated toward legacy, athletes, a friend of friend who has contacts at the school, and Daddy with the big wallet. The leftover seats are a lottery. Just close your eyes and hope you are chosen.</p>
<p>The trouble with ill informed comments like testtaker made is that there are a small number of people that might believe him. People reading forums should consider the knowledge and background of posters before they give the postings too much weight. Outstanding athletes do have an advantage in admissions; but many of the outstanding athletes are also valedictorians with high SATs. Preference is also given to outstanding musicians, artists, writers, etc. Legacies do not have a set number of seats. Being a legacy is less important than SATs, grades, teacher recommendations, etc. I did not meet a single legacy that was not well qualified to be a Princeton student. Read the letters section of the Princeton Alumni Weekly to see the number of parents complaining that legacies with outstanding grades, SATs, and ECs were not admitted. Since Princeton has the largest endowment per undergraduate of all universities in the U.S. Princeton has less reason to give any preference to Daddy with a big wallet. A friend of a friend contact will do you less good than a recommendation from a HS teacher than knows you. </p>
<p>I suggest before anyone believes a word that testtaker wrote that they review the GPAs, SATs, and ECs of admitted students. Does it appear to you that unqualified students are being admitted?</p>
<p>If you want to be admitted show what you know by getting a high score on your AP exams, SAT IIs, and competition in science fairs, math contests, and academic bowls.</p>
<p>The small amount that competitiveness fluctuates each year is nothing compared to the general trend of competitiveness and applications increasing each year.</p>
<p>Hmm. Well if you’re thinking about Princeton in particular, admissions with be MUCH more competitive this year than in previous years, even last year. This is because Princeton is aiming to decrease the overall number of undergrads sharply over the next couple of years, down to about 1700 total. I wouldn’t be surprised of the admittance rate is 4-5 % this year. This is true of many top schools, including most Ivies (although most are not going to be reduced to such a small number as 1,700)</p>
<p>BTW, I’m glad I stumbled upon this site - it looks great. Can’t believe I didn’t hear of it earlier as an admissions officer.</p>
<p>Beware of misinformation. The target size for the incoming class is about 1,300. The size of the undergraduate student body is expected to be 5,200 by 2012. Over the past several years Princeton has slightly increased the size of the freshman class-not decreased the size of the freshman class.</p>
<p>hey ptonalumnus,</p>
<p>i heard something similar to what mrvader wrote. my guidance counselor told me that the year after i graduate (2010) princeton in particular and several other ivies were going to decrease the size of their undergraduate body but my class would not be affected. i didnt ask her any more about it and i dont know any numbers but that is what i heard</p>
<p>Well Yale is building 2 more RCs in a few years, so they will be adding to the class size substantially.</p>
<p>Princeton provides housing for all undergraduates. Princeton recently completed the construction of Whitman College so that the university could expand the number of students. </p>
<p>Why would Princeton build new dormitories if the university was planning to reduce the number of students?</p>
<p>Princeton receives more applications from fully qualified students than the university can accommodate. Why would the university reduce the number of students admitted?</p>
<p>Princeton has announced that future freshman classes will have about 1,300 students and the student body will have 5,200 students. I am sure that your guidance counselor was trying to provide accurate information but in this case the counselor does not have the correct information.</p>
<p>Pton,</p>
<p>I have first hand knowledge of a few receiving admission based on who knows who. I NEVER stated that they were not qualified. Maybe your anger is affecting your critical reading skills. Most who apply are qualified they just don’t have the same chances of getting admitted. The truth upsets people but DON’T kill the messenger.</p>
<p>By the way Pton…Princeton is the school where this person gained admittance. Sorry to burst your bubble:0</p>
<p>although an old thread…just for the record.</p>
<p>Jonathan R. Cole: “A Little Secret: Athletics at the Most Selective Colleges and Universities in the Nation”. College and University Admissions, Part III</p>
<p>As I stated…there are very few slots after all hooked canidates are admitted. Also see thread </p>
<p>Explosive: Ivies and Other Top Schools Recruit More Atlhletes Than Jock Schools</p>
<p>I gather the sat scores of the athletes were lower according to the article…</p>
<p>Well it seems that with each year, the competition within the applicants increases considerably; quite nerve-wracking isn’t it?</p>
<p>Admission preferences for athletes is very old news. Very old. Old news to your parents and old news to your grandparents. 100 years ago the Ivies sought gentlemen scholar athletes who were competent in Latin and of good character. The Latin requirement has been dropped but the Ivies still give admission preferences to scholar athletes. </p>
<p>The percentage of athletes at Princeton may be higher at Princeton than other Ivy League schools because Princeton has the third smallest student body in the eight-member Ivy League but the second highest number of athletic teams. The admission preference given to athletes has been discussed at Princeton for a long time. Jonathan R. Cole references the book by the former president of Princeton William G. Bowen. In his book The Game of Life: College Sports and Educational Values President Bowen reports that recruited athletes have a lower SAT scores than the class average. Since Princeton uses a holistic approach to admissions it is not surprising that applicants that are outstanding in one area, sports, music, or community leadership might have lower SATs than academic admits with less EC activities to recommend their admission. Bowen also reports that Ivy League athletes graduate at almost the same rate as other students in their class (more than 90 percent) and they do very well after college graduation, both economically and in terms of their involvement in and service to their communities. After college success often depends more on qualities often developed in team sports such as people skills, leadership, and initiative than raw intelligence. While President Bowen argued in his book for more academic admits he did not change the recruitment of athletes while he was president of Princeton.</p>
<p>At at least some Big 12 and Big 10 football schools the football players receive academic credit for the time practicing football. Some schools have special courses for scholarship athletes. In the Ivy League athletes are required to meet the same academic requirements as their fellow students. </p>
<p>Princeton attempts to admit a freshman class that is diverse in race, religion, geographic area and talents of the students. The Performing Arts Supplement is an indication that Princeton considers talent in other non academic areas. If Princeton became more like MIT or Cal Tech I believe it would lose some important aspects of university life. I believe that it can be valuable for math and science students to learn that the 6 ft 10 in basketball center and the beautiful women tennis player have academic strengths in areas that exceed their own ability. </p>
<p>There is nothing shocking that some recruited athletes do not compete on varsity teams in college. Many students change activities or reduce the number of activities in college. For example, I was very involved in high school debate but choose not to continue in college. </p>
<p>There is the suggestion that recruited athletes do not deserve to be admitted. Many of the recruited athletes were valedictorians of their high school class and are admitted to the nation’s best graduate schools. Bowen did not compare athlete grade point averages with students that spend 30 hours per week on the school newspaper, on student theater, or volunteer work. Many of our nation’s leaders including President Ford, JFK, and Senator Bill Bradley were involved in athletic activities. </p>
<p>One serious mistake the author makes is disparaging the success of Ivy League athletics. In 2010 Princeton finished 32nd in the country in The Learfield Sports Directors’ Cup finishing ahead of Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma State, and Arkansas. A total of 36 Princeton student athletes earned All American honors in the 2009-2010 school year. Princeton has had 22 student athletes named Rhodes Scholars. Ninety-seven alumni have competed in the Olympics. </p>
<p>If you are not a recruited athlete do not despair. Eighty percent of the class is composed of students who were not recruited.</p>
<p>A beautiful women tennis player…? Is the basketball player handsome?</p>
<p>I never gave an opinion on the admission process. I just stated that the odds of admission are lower than what most believe.</p>