The hard part is he loves his band directors. I’ve never been fond of one of them who has been giving my daughter a hard time since her younger brother started at the school because she wouldn’t join band too. He’s also the one always going on about how he could be making double with his degrees if he switched districts or even more than that if he taught in college. But that he’s happy being assistant band director. Well if he’s so happy why is he so negative about my son’s choices? He doesn’t have to live my son’s life or pay for his education so let us as a family decide what is best instead of giving him mixed information or criticism. I am not looking forward to parent teacher conferences. But I have to be congenial so my son gets those references. I do agree with you all though… I think you ALL know more than they do at this point. Thank you CC Community for keeping me sane! Reading all your stories and advice has been more helpful than I can put into words.
Sometimes one of the hardest things to do in life is to go against the advice of a person you admire and respect. For me it was disappointing my dad when I changed my major in college. He tried to cover up his disappointment but it was obvious. Still I held my ground but it was hard. I didn’t really have anyone to back me up…except my pot smoking friends…who seemed less reliable than my dad lol. In the end I made the right decision for myself and my dad got over it.
Your son has you. Just support him as a good decision-maker when others question, doubt, complain etc. If you tell him you trust him, display it by being respectful of his thought process, he’ll learn to trust himself and make the right call. Despite my dad wanting me to do another major he unfortunately raised me to be independent and strong…and in the end that’s what he got in a daughter (even though he lost the battle for the major).
Music is a hard degree. Many people will be concerned about his choice (even negative). The best thing you can teach your kid is faith in his decisions/himself…and a really strong work ethic.
As for the parent teacher conference, maybe separate him as a teacher and as a “college advisor”. Maybe he’s good at one and not the other. People are rarely good at everything. That separation could allow you to work positively with him on recommendations. Obviously he has been a good teacher. As a college advisor however … maybe he has a chip on his shoulder…
@UniversityMomOf2 that band director sounds like a real piece of work. My son has friends who have school theater directors or music teachers that have just gone off their rocker during the with talented kids and during the college admissions process. Sometimes to the point where kids have dropped out of their school programming and switched to private teachers and wider community offerings that tend to draw more serious kids. Stuff like putting their most trained violinists at the back of 2nd chair in orchestra out of the blue. Never giving leading theater roles to kids that do professional or community theater, etc. I do wonder about the thought process. We’ve had none of that with the private teachers. My son had to ask a professional theater director for a 12th hour reference last week to apply to theater scholarship at one school. I was nervous - this is someone pretty well known in the local theater community and she is BUSY. And honestly, my kid is more of a music kid than a theater kid despite the extensive theater resume. She was tripping over herself willing to help my kid and excited for his prospects. No mind games! Amazing!
It’s even harder if he loves them and they’re giving crazy advice and inconsistent information. Super weird that he would muse aloud about changing jobs in front of students/parents? There is a lot of good data about the strength of the programs you are looking at. I love the advice about trusting your kid and the process and I’m working on it here myself. I think it’s ok to point out when adults are not acting like adults and operating in a student’s best interest.
Still chugging away over here. The kid has gotten very efficient at writing the “Why School X essay”. LOL. There are 2 more EA apps I’d like him to get out. Well one is for me (UMich) and one is for him (UChicago - why? Waste of time!). I am letting him have a few crazy apps if he wants. At least that one is free if you file the fafsa. OH - the spouse is in charge of the FAFSA and CSS and I’m ready to duct tape him to his desk chair to crank them out.
The dynamic, comments and behaviors described above between high school teachers and very talented music/drama kids are more common than you think. 
My voice kid had strong advocates on the band/orchestra side of the house (she was also a percussionist and a soloist with the orchestra) and was pretty much ignored by the choir director, who also cast and directed the musicals. Who knows why. I could make some guesses.
Looking back - high school is just so “high school.” Those personalities and their importance fade pretty quickly once in undergrad. But I remember it feeling pretty awful at the time.
Thank you all for the words of wisdom. It’s comforting to know we aren’t the only ones experiencing this resistance (but also not because our kids shouldn’t be treated this way). We are just going to have to go with our gut. He needs to find his own home, not chosen by anyone but him.
It’s funny – I’ve been thinking back and realize that, in a smaller way, my S has heard a lot of these sorts of comments. For instance, his private teacher has really denigrated one school that was high on S’s list and suggested that “anyone can get in there” even though it’s actually quite selective. Another teacher told him to apply to several schools that are local and offer a lot of financial support but are really poor academically, because they (not my S) were poor students and these schools allowed them to do “almost no academic work.” And finally, you wouldn’t believe the slurs that teachers at colleges with strong classical programs have put on jazz. They simply cannot believe that a player as strong as S would choose jazz over classical.
Finally, while I am venting - my S plays with a well established state student orchestra that just this year has introduced a jazz orchestra. It was competitive and difficult to get in, yet the staff treat the jazz kids as second-class citizens. At the beginning of the season, I attended a parents meeting where they called for volunteers for the organization’s annual gala, which showcases student performances. A jazz parent asked, naturally enough, if the jazz orchestra would be playing at the gala. The program manager appeared shocked, but – after a moment – commented that perhaps they might be able to play in the lobby before the event began. Needless to say, I am not volunteering or donating to this organization.
Anyway…I never really put all of this together until this conversation began. But I agree more than ever that we need to trust our kids, trust our own gut feelings, and ignore the noise.
@akapiratequeen That’s downright shameful. There is nothing wrong with preferring jazz to classical. Same goes for a preference for contemporary. Some programs specialize in that. And hello “La La Land” anybody? A lot of state audition programs are adding jazz. It is a growing specialty. Getting into it doesn’t make you a lesser player. And just because a person doesn’t prefer a type of music, it doesn’t mean it requires any less skill or talent. Acknowledge that whether it’s what you like to listen to or not. I always tell my husband I don’t like the music he listens to but I can appreciate the talent of the musicians. Same principal.
Thanks @UniversityMomOf2 ! It’s actually been quite helpful in terms of helping him figure out where he would be happiest. He doesn’t personalize it (unlike his mom!), just makes a note and moves on.
Another indicator that is really helping him narrow his choices is faculty/staff responsiveness. Overall, I’ve been incredibly impressed by the level of personal access and attention he’s received throughout this process. I’ve never had a music school kid before, so I don’t know if it’s the norm, but he’s corresponded with studio heads (one spent an hour on the phone with him!), program directors, and admissions people one-on-one far more than my other kids did during the application process. And interestingly, that personal touch is making a difference. He just spent a “shadow day” at Rutgers-Mason Gross, where he was assigned to a senior sax player and tagged along to classes with him. The kid was super welcoming, they exchanged texts, and he also spent 15 minutes chatting with the program director, who happened to be on site. It’s now moved up the list.
Alternately, we visited one school with amazing facilities and a very friendly admissions officer, who connected him with the associate dean for music education. S had a few questions and wrote to him, then followed up, but never received a reply. That school has slid from No. 2 to the bottom of the pile.
What has impressed your kids during this process? What has dissuaded them?
One thing that has dissuaded me from having him attend, and for S hasn’t kept him from his willingness to apply but definitely slid it down the list was one school very obviously had been investing money in upgrading dorms and science and social science facilities, but the music school smelled funky, was very run down, and was very much set apart from the rest of the campus but not in a good way. It was more like they were less than compared to other students. You lived, dined and took gen-eds at one place but had to go through a huge trek back and forth for music related activities. There was no geographic reason that the music building had to be where it was considering the construction going on at campus.
One thing that excited my son was to see that one of the educators (I know he conducted one of the bands but don’t know what else) was the composer of a piece he performed in our conference honor band last year. He got all fan-boy and hoped to meet him.
Getting personal contact with professors at another college reinforced his first choice. We still have to explore some others but one college that I’m planning a visit to is reaching out to us nicely. We will see how he feels when visiting.
One place went to #2 position because the Asst Admissions Director (of the New School) gave us a tour at 8pm. Like you, I was shocked with the attentiveness. It might have had something to do with the fact that he knew that we were driving from Berklee that day 
I think maybe music schools are more attentive since there are less music students in general? Not sure.
I’m going to tack on that I don’t know if you all go through this - but at times, I get very stressed out with this whole process. Not sure why exactly - except to think about how our daughters (yup - we have two seniors looking at colleges) might face rejection or that we won’t be able to make their #1 choice happen financially. I think it’s a bit of both. Anyway - sometimes the stress of it hits hard - and the another day, it doesn’t bother me and I think that if the stars don’t align - they can always take a year off.
I think this is a function of how much the college application process has changed over the years. I don’t remember this kind of stress when I was growing up. I think that colleges have become exhorbitantly expensive which adds to parental stress. Not sure. I just looked and the COA (cost of attendance) at our musician daughter’s top choice is $67k. Are you kidding me???
At any rate - I’m glad that we are sharing this road together… the ups and the downs. Our daughter has yet to submit an application yet. Any ideas on how you all have incented your kids to push the button? It’s driving me to distraction with both my kids. I’m thinking about duct taping them to a chair in front of the computer.
The application process was no fun with my first two arts inclined kids. We felt like we were constantly harping on them to adhere to deadlines and get it done, to the point that every conversation seemed to be about what they needed to do and became unpleasant. One thing that helped us get over that was we helped each child come up with a list of things they needed to do and deadlines. One created an Excel spreadsheet, the other liked to make a list on a notes app on his phone. Then, we picked one time and day a week to go over their progress with that, to try to avoid always getting on them about it. That helped, though its hard to resist the urge to remind them during the week. You have to give them some responsibility and ownership over the process because otherwise they depend on you to catch things and remind them all the time, which creates stress.
@tripletmama I can relate to that stress. I feel like I’ve been attached to my iPad 10 hours a day for over a month with all the research into every aspect of it. It’s all a foreign concept to me. All I had to do for my D was act as travel coordinator and then give her my credit card for sending applications and SAT scores. Now I’m learning about all that’s involved in applying to these different schools (my daughter didn’t have to write a single personal statement or essay even at big state flagship schools in other states), what schools to apply to (most on our list Ive never heard of before this community), how to fill out the common app (I’m still lost on a lot of that and am spending lots of time in the common app section of CC), what a CSS profile is and how to tackle it (haven’t even started it yet and I’m stressed), the importance of visiting and taking lessons and sitting in on classes (proving harder than I’d like), what the heck a zeemee is (haven’t even gotten to that yet other than to pull up a search page on CC), how to get recommendations, write a music resume and repertoire list, etc. I was talking with a friend last night who is younger than me and she said that even when she applied everything was still on paper. I remember filling out the FAFSA (a green and white paper application) and going to the public library to look at books about all the different colleges and where to WRITE TO to get an application. I’m so worried about deadlines, acceptance/rejection and finances that I just have to walk away sometimes.
@vistajay that is an excellent recommendation. I think it’s time I do that with my son. He is NOT prioritizing or putting any real effort into this because he’s spending all his time helping others with their stuff or taking on more stuff for himself that he shouldn’t even be signing up for.
Case in point, a vocal friend of his is applying to an all-state composition program. (They have District music festivals where the best of each district is pulled for all-state in February but for kids who don’t make all-state, there is a separate application process for a future music educator clinic and a composition clinic. S is applying for the future music educators but if he is pulled for all-state performance then that trumps the other.) His friend wants to apply for composition and she has to submit a 2 1/2 minute piece on some software. She doesn’t know how to use the software. So she asked my son to do it for her. (He was told by another friend if she can’t do it herself she shouldn’t be applying since it’s a requirement.) He agreed which I was upset with him for because he has his own applications and essays to worry about. So what she gives him is a recording of her singing a capella and wants him to put it into software. He thought he was going to be putting sheet music into the software, but no, she expects him to listen and transcribe accordingly. He doesn’t have perfect pitch and the recording wasn’t great. So he spent 3 hours on it and only got 50 seconds done, while he was home sick with bronchitis. He finally gave up. I saw what he put together. It looked like piano sheet music with treble and bass clef and chords, etc. I said heck no. Her singing out a basic melody and then turning in something that looks like that on software she doesn’t know how to use is not her composing and she has no business in the program. Yes, she created lyrics and melody but those weren’t the requirements of the application. So he finally told her he can’t do it and now is worried his assistant band director is going to go off on him saying he made the commitment and if she can’t apply it’s his fault. Um no… So, any thoughts on how to reel my kid in?
Oh UniversityMom yikes! I would want to whack my kid with a shoe if he took something like that on right now. Not to mention I agree it’s totally unethical. If she doesn’t have the theory to get it down on paper (the software is not rocket science if you can write your music long hand - my son takes composition/theory) then she shouldn’t be entering. He’s not doing her any favors. If the band director says anything he is nuts. Ugh - my kid DOES have perfect pitch and that would be way too much right now. No way!
What I did was create a google sheet we can both access. We started with a page for just programs, website link, audition dates, audition requirements, due dates. I put them in order of what I wanted to get done first. Safest options were first for us. I had 4 applications I wanted done. Anything after that was gravy as far as I’m concerned. I am doing ALL the secretarial work. About once or twice a week, when I know has a window of time I give him something to do. I warn him about once a week what is coming next. He’s got a little niggly stuff on a few but I’m letting a little linger to get a few more apps in since a bunch of this stuff isn’t due until December. He’s been more motivated to get through apps than I thought. He really wants to get through a few more reachy reachy options. I am tempering it a little. I think I have him talked out of applying UChicago and NYU. LOL. Or at least getting some more realistic reaches out first that at least have merit available.
All he is doing is writing essays and practicing for the most part. And checking stuff before we send. I am doing all the secretarial stuff. I have since added sheets on the spreadsheet to track portals and to do lists for each portal. I move them to the bottom as they are done. I highlight his stuff in red. We have another sheet to track music prescreens and what music to plug in for each college. He has 5 songs to cover everything. Schools are requiring 2-4 selections and some have very fussy and specific requirements. I can’t wait until after prescreen recording is done because that will really finish up a number of apps and any additional ones should be more streamlined to plug in.
I have a feeling my daughter will want a much more hands off approach when she applies to colleges. She’s already making proclamations now that her brother is doing it. And she is interested in performing arts. I’m already trying to talk her out of BFA MT programs. That circuit looks nutty.
Oh - my son has been treated pretty well at all the music programs he’s visited. Northwestern U was a little uppity. We had a great tour there with a very friendly theater student and our info session guy was very down to earth and practical too. That whole thing felt a little like Disneyworld though. SO many people on the tours. CMU was WAY more friendly than I was expecting but I have low expectations about even getting through pre-screen there. Oberlin was wonderful, Lawrence was wonderful (kid had 1 glitchy experience there), St. Olaf was great, state flagships were super welcoming. UMichigan’s music tour/presentation felt a bit stark and cold immediately after Oberlin but my kid had a great lesson there. Oberlin was super hands on 1-1 experience. He’s applying to a few further flung places we haven’t visited yet. He’s only met with 1 faculty member somewhere that was a hard no never. Everyone else seemed great.
I’ve got a work in progress spreadsheet (school, app date, scholarship app date, music app date, tick boxes for whether an interview or placement test is required, a box for scales with notations for which scales are required where, pre-screen requirements, audition repertoire and audition dates). It’s mostly completed. Having knocked the list down a bunch after our three visits last week helped get it to the almost done phase. We aren’t doing ED or EA because we got started too late. It’s annoying when an app isn’t due until day January but if you want a scholarship it’s due in December, or when an app is due in March but auditions are January and February. It seems in many cases the school is out of touch with the music department. I’ve never worked with google docs and my son doesn’t have a google account but I like that idea. I know you can set up something similar with Apple but I don’t use their office like software. Opened numbers once and hated it so I went back to Excel.
I’m glad your son has been treated so well. We had some difficulties getting stuff set up at St. Olaf but actually making the trip made up for it. Lawrence is his favorite. But we still have visits that need to be made. I signed up for a visit day at Valpo on a day he doesn’t have school. Trying to coordinate with the music part but it’s only an hour and a half away so it’s just a day trip. Seeing whether he likes campus will make me happy because it’s a pre-screen school. If he doesn’t like it no need to worry about that recording.
My son has gotten 5 of 7 applications in and now needs to do his music supplements and request his auditions. He’s busy with jazz band, youth symphony, school orchestra, pit orchestra, a jazz combo, regional orchestra, and a rock band (oh, and 4 AP classes), so hopefully once he gets the audition dates nailed down, it will become more “real” and I guess he can give up some of his sleep to fit in more practice time for college auditions! Thank goodness there are no pre-screens. He hasn’t really sought opinions on his “list” - his private teacher is pretty clueless and keeps mentioning Curtis (lol) and I don’t know if his school director has seen his list yet.
It is scary going into this process with no real “safety” and I plan on freaking out on a regular basis over these next five months. He has two favorites and I think he has a “sort of reasonable” chance at getting into one of those. I hope he ends up there because it’s in-state, dirt cheap, and he really it off with the professor during a summer program. This is just a first step and he can hopefully go somewhere more prestigious for an M.M. with the money he saves, since he’s kind of a late bloomer.
He didn’t get the advantage of visiting everywhere so two of his schools he’ll see for the first time when he auditions. There are two others where he has been on the campus, but hasn’t done any sort of tour, much less visited the music department. And there is one where he will apply by video and won’t see it at all unless they admit him and give him money.
I have to say using google docs and google sheets and google drive has been so great for this process! We are able to share sheet music with the teacher and pianist for prescreens, the kids sends me his essays he works on google docs and I can proofread from there, and we can both see and modify our master spreadsheet (help us if it ever gets deleted! I should download it/print is occasionally). I can also view and modify on my iPad and laptop. Just putting that out there for future generations.
Oh - also, my kid is not practicing nearly enough. I’m super nervous about recording prescreens!
My S has one I consider safety. It should be easy for him to get in musically (that’s almost sad to say) and definitely easy academically and it’s close enough to commute in case we can’t afford for him to live there, but it’s still a small private LAC so not cheap. But they are pretty generous with scholarships. Academics alone he gets $25k, then additional for marching band, pep band, ensemble participation and being a music ed major from the education department. It should come in around 20k all in not counting need based. And if the flute teacher sucks he can continue with his current one who lives in the same town.
The one I consider a reach is the one only taking 4 Flutes next year. The music admissions director says his academics are exactly what they look for. But it’s also a reach financially. I think his second choice might be a reach as well depending on how the pre-screen goes.
The rest are all over the place and I have no idea. But mine isn’t as busy as yours. He has school wind ensemble, school concert band, regional orchestra and 4 AP classes and one dual credit. Audition season will be trickier… he will have orchestra pit, and if selected all-state band/orchestra and conference honor band and an additional AP class. All 3 of those are in February one of which eats up 3 days that could be auditions.
I’ll be freaking out with you, sending a virtual hug, and a virtual drink of whatever makes you happy. For me that’s Pepsi.
@UniversityMomOf2 , our ultimate threat to our son to get his apps submitted, and to practice, was that he was the one going to college not us, and he could always go to LSU. There’s nothing wrong with LSU and it is decent in his major, but 60% of his HS went there and he DID NOT want to go there.
US: Son, did you finish the scholarship essay for USCal or Vandy yet?
Son: Umm…no but I will do it.
US: That’s fine. I am sure LSU can squeeze in one more. And we can visit you all the time!
He must have heard that or something similar 1,000 times.