Yes, I do believe in many cases (but not all!), the 5th year really helps.
I do think @KaylaMidwest and I are on the same page. In bringing these issues up, it can seem that you are negative or disparaging of programs…and that is NOT what I want to do. I sometimes make bad jokes about it…just to say…yes weird things can happen, teachers are people, admission people can be confusing…AND doing a double degree, second concentation or whatever can be a lot of hard work and can force a give or take in some semesters…at any school.
It’s just something to be aware of in your search. I brought up my D’s school to say:
in spite of comments that there are grad students and you’ll never get a chance to perform (not true)
in spite of putting the double concentration front and center in her auditions (had an MT piece on her VP audition list!)
in spite of working with a teacher who did not shepard second concentration students a lot (but as my D went into grad auditions she offered weekly lunch dates to talk endlessly about my D’s choices…she was truly a gem)
in spite of a lot of things on the surface that may have been questionable…the school felt right to her…and she had a great experience (even if she did face challenges of dropping a class for an opera role and not doing theater performances bc she was always in operas - her choice - but she did plenty of theater classes)
It WORKED. She was happy. She felt that she got an excellent education. So I was trying to say…GO FOR IT…with eyes wide open…and simply explain why a double degree can present challenges (that can be overcome).
I have a kid who can’t make up his mind. For that reason we know we won’t let him go to a stand-alone conservatory (assuming he got in of course). I understand he can major in music and minor in something else in most places (for example most CA public universities). I wonder if Bienen students are even allowed to minor in academic discipline outside of music program or are they completely shut out of Northwestern programs unless they are dual degree?? Is JHU Peabody also a separate entity and only dual degree students have access to academic side?
The biggest issue that my S24 had with the dual degree programs when we looked is that they all required almost your entire first and second year within the music school. That doesnt allow any exploration of the other major for a kid who is undecided. Although he would love to continue high level music through college since he is firm that it is not his career, he decided it is not worth the trade off of seeing what else college has to offer academically.
I can’t answer about those two schools in particular, but we did talk with my son about the possibility that his thinking might evolve. He’s not focused on a specific career path yet, he’s interested in film, and he wants to keep studying language, so what if he goes down that path and wants to minor in film or Spanish? He needs to choose a school that is flexible enough so he can do that. Now, if he talked about two full degrees, I would have a talk with him, because he might not like the experience of going for that. Some students thrive on that, while others would be too stressed.
@helpingthekid73, I think exploration is so important, and this is a great time in life for it! If a music school or program is such that a kid can’t explore anything else, that could be the perfect school for one student and a nightmare for another.
I think it can be helpful to apply to many options and then look deeper into each program where you get in, and by that time, whatever changes happen in senior year have happened
One note about the future: exploration happens after undergrad…grad school is a great place to do that. I know kids who majored in biology and went on for a master’s and/or doctorate in music, and I know a kid who went to conservatory and now has two degrees in Medieval Studies. You never know!
And exploration can happen after schooling. My kid is in her 30’s and has focused on music for 15 years but along the way, has done a lot of art history, philosophy, photography, whatever interests them. In fact currently taking a video editing class and using that with music.
Some kids want the pure conservatory experience. Some kids don’t major in music at all but end up doing it long term. Just trying to give the message that these things really work out in the long run, no matter what the decision is for undergrad.
Applying widely is difficult given all the essay writing requirements and travel requirements for auditions. I really wish mine narrows down the list to make the process more managable.
I appreciate that. It always seems like such an epic decision when you’re in it. I’ve had three different careers in my life, and I totally agree that exploration happens lifelong. That is my great hope for my kid.
@Medea1 my kid applied to “all options” meaning two BA programs, 3 BM programs (and of those one BA had a double degree option for MM). You don’t have to apply to a lot of schools to cover those options,But for financial reasons, yes, whether for financial or merit aid, it helps to have more than that. The BA options did not require travel and the BM options did not involve essays, as I remember.
It’s my understanding for Peabody that when you apply to Peabody, you get into Peabody. If you want to do a dual degree in A&S or Engineering at JHU, then you need to be admitted separately to JHU, as well. I don’t know if JHU is more lenient toward students who have the nod from Peabody.
Obviously, there’s a gap in acceptance rates between JHU and Peabody. However, I think we can assume that there’s some degree of self selectiveness in Peabody that may lead to the appearance of higher acceptance rates.
I won’t lie, it was very hard to apply to so many music programs. My kid did 12! But each one had something different that interested him. Once we saw their scholarship offers, most had to be quickly pared away. That was our process, for better or worse, but we were glad he did so many because he ended up with more than one choice in the end.
So, yes, it’s tough. I can tell you a couple things to allay your fears, though.
He only had to write three things I would call “essays”. Most schools just asked for short answers (250 words or so) about “why our school”. He wrote a short piece for his first application, about what music means to him, which he was able to use in some form or another several times.
In terms of travel, yes, it was hard, but we set a limit of three trips and chose schools strategically. All the others were virtual and took about $100 total to set up with a new mic. I was worried about that at first, but he got into every school he auditioned virtually for. So, it is totally doable to apply places without traveling to every one.
@Medea1, My son did a similar thing to what compmom says. He applied mostly to BMus programs, but at a variety of kinds of schools, from music-only like Berklee, to broad course offerings like Loyola. (Thank goodness he did that array, because he learned a lot about which he wanted along the way.) He also applied to one BS and one BA, but they were both parents’ choice schools and are not going to be the winners.
We had a friend applying to UCLA music program and the supplement had (if i remember correctly) several 600 word essays in addition to 4 UC ones. Glad to know that’s not standard!
Northwestern students majoring in music are able to choose an academic duel degree or an academic minor. This is a very common thing! Please call the Bienen admissions office and get all of your questions answered. If your son would like to chat with a double degree Bienen student, feel free to PM me. My daughter can connect him with a current student.
1.) Look at the admission requirements at the school for his degree. Start a spreadsheet. If there’s an outlier…with some crazy request…maybe that’s not the program for him. This is important to consider (I would guess this comes out a little later for 2024 but you can see this year’s requirements). I don’t recall a lot of essays for BM degrees. It’s the travel…so checking about virtual auditions will be important too.
2.) I agree with @hesmall . Start calling schools. Ask if your kid is in the expected range for acceptance with grades (it’s often lower for music schools due to all the time in practice). No sense applying if he’s out of range. And, ask for a student representative to talk with (your kid would do the contact). You can gain a lot of insight this way.
By asking these questions, you are further along than the average bear. At first, you want to know your kid can go everywhere…and do anything! Now, you want to start culling that list with “hard” data. It really is a good process that will lead to the right school/program/teacher.
My son is accepted to Northwestern dual degree as well as JHU+Peabody dual degree. He is debating which one to go. @Medea1 His only serious EC is orchestra. He did volunteering and other clubs but only wrote about orchestra in all his essays. we don’t think having just this one EC is a problem. on the contrary, it shows he has true passion.
Since freshman year he has been contacting college professors, introduced by his private teacher, all-state directors, summer camp connections, etc. He also got to know several college students (BMus and dual degree) from summer programs and asked a lot of questions. By the end of last summer he already knew which college professors he wanted to study under, so he only applied to 4 programs and was accepted by all.
I should have mentioned that there was one outlier that was really complex compared to all the others. USC/Thornton required several video responses, including designing a capstone project concept, just to be pre-screened to audition. I think it is a great idea to research far ahead of time in case there will be any like that on your kid’s list.
Like I said, it was very hard for my kid/us, but I don’t think essays are a problem. I think it is a large number of small-scale questions if you apply to a lot of schools (e.g., what he liked about each school, what drew him to his art form). Not full essays. Staying organized, one can re-use things quite a bit. S kept them all in a google doc so he could draw on past answers and I could proof.
The most important thing your student needs to learn as a college music major is…flexibility (in my opinion). My kid started out as interested only in orchestral playing…and he did a lot of that. But then he toured with a quintet for a year and realized he liked smaller chamber size ensembles. But then he also realized he liked more contemporary types of music. And then he realized he loved recording and mastering. And teaching CC courses. And playing in the pit group for musicals, His career as a freelance musician has morphed.
The most valuable (he tells me) courses he took were personal finance in undergrad school (an elective), and required courses on entrepreneurship at his grad school conservatory (covered lots of things about being self employed).
So…wherever your musicians land, and whatever they are doing now…very possible this could morph into something else.
Also, how difficult this is obviously depends on your kid and on your own comfort level with helping them.
My kid came into this the opposite way from @somethings’s son. He decided to go for a music major pretty late, and he didn’t know anyone, not one prof, and hadn’t done any summer programs. He didn’t know much about the schools, either. So, he applied to several. If your kid has met profs and done programs before, they’ll be able to narrow down more and apply to fewer schools.
