Classical Saxophone

<p>There have been a number of posts - particularly by @Woodwinds about studying classical saxophone, and whether or not there even is such a thing.</p>

<p>Here's a link to a lengthy and fascinating interview with Tim McAllister (who teaches now at Northwestern) about collaborating with the composer John Adams on an upcoming Concerto written specifically for him and about to debut next week in Sydney. The interview is long and gets into some of the details of what it means to play saxophone within a large orchestra, out in front as a soloist, and in small chamber groups or a saxophone quartet. (He's a member of the Prism Saxophone quartet.)</p>

<p>SoundNotion</a> 128: Up There - YouTube</p>

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<p>John Adams recently came to conduct one of his pieces with our local large symphony orchestra, and brought Tim McAllister with him to play the alto saxophone part in the symphony. Many new works with saxophone parts are often classical in nature, but include some sections that sound closer to jazz. Fantastic playing on the part of McAllister. Interestingly, Adams had McAllister stand during the sax’s long solo parts. While it was probably easier to hear the saxophone coming from the back of the orchestra that way, I thought it might been John Adams’ way of training the orchestra to play the jazz style parts of the symphony better (the strings in the past have done a pretty poor job of playing jazz).</p>

<p>While composers are writing plenty of new pieces for saxophone, orchestras have been slow to include literature where the saxophone has a part. Perhaps, as orchestras start adding more pop, jazz and modern works, this will change and there will be more opportunities for classical saxophonists.</p>

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<p>Woodwinds - if you listen to this whole interview - and it’s an hour and a half long! - you’ll hear him discuss why he stands in Adams’ City Noir, as well as discuss the expectations of new composers writing classical saxophone parts - and if they should, or should not, sound like jazz. I, who don’t play any instrument at all, found this interview quite fascinating - even the talk about reeds and mouthpieces!</p>

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<p>Wow - great interview - thanks for sharing, Spirit! I’m listening to it right now. I have a friend who is studying with Tim and really seems to like him. As for whether classical saxophone exists, it definitely does. I have a good friend who makes a living as a classical saxophonist - but that is VERY rare! I think most really great classical saxophonists also teach, primarily at the university level, but my friend actually plays his sax (in Germany, I might add - wouldn’t work here in the States) as his primary job. I get to play in our regional orchestra from time to time, and always enjoy when I do - and I am actually going to be performing a solo with the orchestra this fall - but I sure won’t be making enough to live off of it. But wouldn’t the world be nice if we could all play our instruments for a living LOL?</p>

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<p>Happy to share! Saxlady - very exciting that you’ll be performing solo with an orchestra. Maybe down the road you can try this new John Adams Concerto!</p>

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<p>thanks, I’m going to have my daughter listen to it!</p>

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<p>In traditional classical music sax is pretty rare (the pieces for school wind ensembles and bands are arrangements where they will include a wide variety of instruments), when New York Youth Symphony did “Pictures at an Exhibition”, they brought in a sax player from the Jazz program, because they didn’t have anyone who could play sax in it. I have heard newer pieces played with Sax, and with composers going back to using jazz in their works a lot more, prob will be more common. </p>

<p>As far as playing in Broadway shows helping with composition, I can’t give a real answer about that but from what I know of the world of Broadway shows and such, I am not sure how much working there would help you. On top of everything else, from everything I have read or heard from my friend about playing on Broadway, the musicians are not necessarily looked upon in the way you might think, where if someone has worked on broadway in pit bands/orchestras, they would have a better chance of getting the opportunity to do Broadway shows. Among other things (and again, this is only my take on it, I won’t claim that much special knowledge), the producers and such who put on the shows don’t really view the musicians in the pit as being that special, they are simply hired musicians doing a job, so it is unlikely let’s say playing in the pit for “Les Miserable” would give someone working there a chance to sell themselves as a composer for a new musical (it could happen, it is still sort of a networking opportunity). From what I know (and again, take this with some pounds of salt), usually Broadway composers get to do shows from networking or as with Jonathan Larson with Rent, work on off broadway shoestring productions and such that catch someone’s eye. I suspect the way they get into that is the way other composers do, they work with mentors, get their training, and then network their way into being able to do shows. It could be doing music for a friend with an idea for a musical, it could be collaborating with a lyricist and someone writing the book and pitching it
</p>

<p>I am saying that, not to discourage her from trying to get into the pits, but rather that the effort to do so may not give her much of an edge (if she runs into composers who do work regularly who tell you that actually is a good thing, take their advice, obviously), and she may be better off focusing on composition and in finding ways to ‘network’ into Broadway composition.</p>

<p>It is true that classical sax is pretty rare in traditional classical music. Just as there is no baroque clarinet music, there is no baroque and limited romantic-era music for saxophone, since it wasn’t invented until around 1848. There is plenty of saxophone orchestral music written in 20th and 21th century music, but orchestras for the most part don’t program those pieces. Similarly, there are plenty of concertos written for woodwinds and brass, but our local big orchestra chooses to only program string and piano soloists. These choices, however, may be changing.</p>

<p>I think the issue of playing as a Broadway musician comes from another thread. I agree with musicprnt about the disconnect between training as a composer and working as a Broadway musician (unless one can play keyboards well enough to get hired). Saxophonists are not hired on Broadway, unless they also play all or most of the other woodwinds. Clarinetists, who can also play sax and flute professionally, are hired. My daughter, who has played around 13 Broadway musicals (but not ON Broadway), usually gets hired to play the “oboe” book. That usually means playing the oboe solos, tenor sax, clarinet, and also either the English horn or the soprano sax. (“Reed 1” parts often include flute, piccolo, clarinet and alto sax, which means one player performs on all four during the musical). My daughter has had lessons with the top “oboe doubler” in our large metropolitan area. This doubling professional told her that her oboe and sax playing are fine–but she needs to practice clarinet more (as in several hours per day) if she wants to get the top jobs in town or on Broadway. Since my daughter’s focus is on becoming the best alto sax player she can be, she has decided not to pursue Broadway doubling as a profession.</p>

<p>Classical saxophonists do play transcriptions frequently, and as long as they have been trained classically it can sound great. (There’s nothing worse than a non-classically trained jazz saxophonist attempting to play baroque music). The saxophone, being made of brass, has a greater range than the other woodwinds (about 5 octaves), and a greater sound range.</p>

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<p>When the Juilliard orchestra did City Noir in Carnegie Hall a couple years ago with Adams conducting. The sax part was played by [the</a> director of orchestral activities](<a href=“http://www.juilliard.edu/journal/patrick-posey"]the”>http://www.juilliard.edu/journal/patrick-posey), rather than a student.</p>

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<p>There are several good classical saxophone players coming out of UCLA
UCLA Angeles Saxophone Quartet:</p>

<p>[Angeles</a> Saxophone Quartet - Gold Medal 2010 - Sr. String Division - YouTube](<a href=“Angeles Saxophone Quartet - Gold Medal 2010 - Sr. String Division - YouTube”>Angeles Saxophone Quartet - Gold Medal 2010 - Sr. String Division - YouTube)</p>

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<p>In our experience, orchestra groups often struggle with the concept of a classical saxophonist. Many classically trained musicians have not heard a great or even good classical saxophonist perform. I am not surprised to hear that Juilliard did not use one of their jazz saxophone students to perform in a classical piece–Juilliard does not have a classical sax program, and therefore does not train any student to play such a part. It also means that future conductors and orchestral managers graduated from Juilliard will likely not know how to distinguish a great classical sax player from an average one. With the exception of having Tim McAllister perform, our local large symphony orchestra does not know how to choose the best classical sax players for sax parts in orchestral pieces. </p>

<p>My daughter is often astonished and dismayed at who the orchestra chooses to contract to perform the sax parts. Even in her own youth orchestra several years ago, my daughter (who was playing oboe/English horn in the orchestra) was passed over for the long Pictures at an Exhibition alto sax solo, which was given to a weaker sax player outside of the program. The explanation given was that since my daughter could play oboe at a high level, she couldn’t possibly play the sax at the same level. The conductor and section coach did not know what good classical sax playing was.</p>

<p>There are a number of interesting new developments on classical saxophone. Here, the Eastman Saxophone Project performs the Rite of Spring, entirely with saxophones:</p>

<p>[ESP</a> - The Rite of Spring - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>

<p>Some of the better known teachers/programs in the USA are</p>

<p>Eastman–Chien Kwan Lin
Northwestern–Tim Mcallister
Peabody–Gary Louie
Indiana–Otis Murphy</p>

<p>and there are others. Lin at Eastman is known for performing baroque music, likely due to his former occupation of professional violinist. Louie at Peabody is known internationally for performing Romantic-era music. Murphy at Indiana and McAllister at Northwestern are more known for performing modern music. Murphy in particular has a great deal of music on youtube.</p>

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<p>I personally think it is a travesty that Juilliard does not have a classical sax program - to me, it’s like a slap in the face. It just seems so wrong! It’s like saying that playing classical saxophone is not a worthy endeavor. And yes, I agree, there is not much work out there for the classical saxophonist
but then work as a performer is hard to find for any instrument. Why single out just one? Anyway, I digress
</p>

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