classist profiing

<p>With all of the recent talk about "racial profiling," I find myself wondering about the Tufts practice of "SAT's in Context." Isn't this "classist profiling?" Isn't Tufts assuming that students born to fairly affluent families are all taking SAT prep classes and are living in a society of SAT mania, when some of us have achieved high scores without the benefit of such a class? </p>

<p>I think that there is a double standard here that Tufts needs to look at. Racial and ethnic profiling is not allowed but class profiling is encouraged. What is happening here?</p>

<p>tufts definitely has some double standard issues with race and socioeconomic issues. its not big enough to make me dislike the school but it certainly ticks me off.</p>

<p>I agree with you to some extent. I managed to get my SAT scores without any prep courses, but the majority of people I know (both from HS and Tufts) who got scores in the same range of mine didn’t take courses either. I feel like the course can help you improve but isn’t going to help you get a perfect score if you wouldn’t have been able to get one otherwise, if that makes sense…</p>

<p>Hebrew Hammer - </p>

<p>Yes, that makes sense. But Tufts is acknowledging that it basically uses “classist profiling” and considers this acceptable. The problem that I have and I believe that skateboarder has is the double standard that we see here. Why is it ok to profile some groups (the rich) when profiling the poor and the minorities is not acceptable?</p>

<p>I think you’re over exaggerating:

  1. the number of times Tufts adcoms give preference to those with significantly lower SAT scores just because they’re poor and didn’t have the luxury of a “prep class” (you can’t really say this occurs to any great extent without official numbers, otherwise you’re just assuming)

I think you’re just assuming that Tufts is assuming this. o.0</p>

<p>and 2) how much this preference actually helps the applicant in the context of an entire application.</p>

<p>Last winter, Dan@admissions wrote at length about “SAT’s in Context.” This is not a fabrication. How much this helps an applicant is unclear and not what is in question. The fact that Tufts is using “Classist profiling” is what I am questioning.</p>

<p>

Except at Tufts the rich currently have a leg up over those who need financial aid.</p>

<p>01-07-2008, 11:13 AM #1<br>
DanAdmiss@Tufts
College Rep</p>

<p>Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tufts University
Posts: 463 Contextualizing the SATs </p>

<p>This is the post from last January regarding Contextualizing the SAT’s. I think that Dan makes the Tufts policy clear.</p>

<p>IB Class - </p>

<p>What does your comment have to do with the propriety of stereotyping people by class? Are you saying that this is acceptable?</p>

<p>

Yes, I certainly am. Are you really saying it’s a big surprise that income and test scores are linked?</p>

<p>One of the other notable trends in recent years of SAT data has been that wealthier students appear to be making up larger shares of test takers. This year continued the trend, which attracts attention because there appears to be a clear relationship between family income and test scores.</p>

<p>[News:</a> SAT Scores Down Again, Wealth Up Again - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/08/29/sat]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/08/29/sat)</p>

<p>Does this mean that EVERY wealthy student falls into this category? No, it does not - and this is the problem To come from affluence and have it assumed that you have had every benefit, SAT prep class, tutors, private school, is one more type of foul stereotyping.</p>

<p>

The alternative is to bury one’s head in the sand and pretend that income makes absolutely no difference in college preparation.</p>

<p>Are you suggesting that a student who grew up in rural Kentucky in an area with high illiteracy, high unemployment, and poor schools should be judged with the exact same ruler as a student who grew up in a wealthy suburb in Boston? Really?</p>

<p>Of course, this policy has another nice benefit: it gives wealthy kids a convenient excuse for why they were rejected.</p>

<p>IB - Why are you assuming that people in rural Kentucky are poor students? Isn’t that its own type of stereotyping? Last time I was in rural Kentucky - which was April of this year - my cousin’s school had the same SAT prep books that my high school has. When she is older, she will take the books home and study from them as I did. She is from Kentucky - but not stupid - and not out of touch with the reality of the SAT’s. To assume otherwise is offensive.</p>

<p>Tufts does not ‘profile’ students from affluent families. The admissions office places SAT scores into context by looking at each individual student’s background. The premise is not that ‘rich’ students are over-privileged and thus do not earn high scores if they get them. Instead, Tufts looks at all aspects of a student’s background. For example, if Student A’s parents both have 4-year college degrees, then that student will most likely score higher on the SAT than Student B, whose parents did not attend college. Also, a student that attends a wealthy, private high school will most likely score better on the SAT than a student that attends an underfunded, public high school. There is nothing unfair about the practice of placing SAT scores into context.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/446146-contextualizing-sats.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/446146-contextualizing-sats.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>EffectiveMind states the issue well. The SAT/ACT score is what it is, and we don’t use a profile to change that. Coming from a stable and affluent family does not somehow reduce that achievement. </p>

<p>But if you’re asking if we use background, environment, and opportunity to help us understand what your achievement means, the answer is: of course we do.</p>

<p>No one exists in a vacuum, and no one’s successes exist in a vacuum. In our process, one of my charges as a reader is to understand each applicant I read as best as I can, and a student’s background is always an important part of that. We are all a product of our home, our family, and our community. I am tremendously proud to work in an office where we do more than just shuffle the highest test takers through our doors, where we spend the time and energy to apprehend personalities and voices. </p>

<p>This is the reality of the Tufts process, and the community we build reflects that reality. I understand not everyone agrees with this practice, and I know NewEngland8 states as much in the above linked thread. That’s OK. But regardless of how you choose to interpret our practice of understanding background, there is value in knowing how our process works.</p>

<p>I think there are sometimes several things at play here:</p>

<p>1) some people spend a lot of time prepping and paying for that prep when it comes to standardized tests.</p>

<p>2) some people never take a prep class and seem to do wonderfully well</p>

<p>3) some people take a prep class and seem to do crappy regardless</p>

<p>4) some people would never have the money to take prep</p>

<p>5) some places in the country dont even have prep classes to take regardless of whether or not you had the money.</p>

<p>I think what needs to be remembered is that you hope to attend a school who looked at you as an individual. If you didn’t care to be an individual in your four years of hs and instead followed some prescribed script that lacked depth, than it won’t really matter what you earned on your SAT’s or ACT. From experience and although S turned down an offer of admission, I think Tufts offers students a lot of ways to show who they really are and it is never based on a single measure such as test scores. Son’s were good, but not perfect. His grades were good and he took classes that were the most challenging offered, but his GPA was not perfect. </p>

<p>In this global world in which we live, it is best you start to understand now that the word “fair” is very relative term. Life isn’t fair, but for the most part it is just.</p>

<p>DanAdmiss@Tufts- We disagree, which is fine. It does look to me like you are saying that high SAT’s from an affluent student doesn’t mean as much as high SAT’s from a poorer sudent. </p>

<p>As far as the other comments suggesting that my opinion reflects “wealthy kids giving excuses for being rejected” - There were three small liberal arts colleges that I really thought I would enjoy attending. I was accepted to one and waitlisted at the others two. I greatly look forward to this fall. This issue is not about me - It is about what the perception (and it is everywhere) that wealthy kids are discriminated against and “profiled” in a negative way in the college admissions process.</p>

<p>I think the better argument would be from the other end of the spectrum.

</p>

<p>I feel like being a first generation is played up too much as a disadvantage. Being the first generation doesn’t automatically mean a student is living in a bad area, with less opportunities, and thus a decreased depth of understand of the SAT. It just means the students’ parents weren’t as privileged. To extend the parents’ not going to college as an automatic “boost” to their child’s SAT score (in terms of “context”) is kind of ridiculous. I’m sure in some cases this is obviously true, but in just as many, I doubt the student is really as disadvantaged unless first-gen is coupled with some demographic disadvantage. I know one of my friends in particular where this case especially applies, and it obviously helped him get into two ivies.

= Affirmative Action

= Reverse Discrimination</p>

<p>Frankly, I find it ridiculous that people think they are accepted or rejected from a school based solely on test scores or generational status. At a school that takes a holistic approach to admissions, perhaps a negative attitude or something else less than desirable came through in your applications. To this day I am curious to know what my kids’ teachers wrote about him in their recommendations. I know he picked teachers who he really respected and felt respected him, but I also know he respected them mostly because they didn’t mince words, had high expectations and expected a lot from him. I can only assume he had great recommendations, but to this day I don’t know if they called him a great leader and classmate or a jerk who likes to think he’s a great leader and classmate. You know?</p>

<p>I believe that both of you (acceptd and newengland8) are mistaken by assuming that the practice of placing SAT scores into context revolves around income. </p>

<p>I am very open about the fact that I come from a low socioeconomic background. I also scored below the average SAT score range for Tufts, and I currently attend Tufts. I was raised by a single mother. She did not attend college. In fact, she didn’t even finish high school. It was not expected that I would attend college. But I worked very hard in high school, earning top grades and graduating in the top five percent of my class. I really wanted to attend a fantastic college that would offer incredible educational opportunities. However, I did not know what the SAT was until midway through my junior year. I did not understand how large a role it played in college admissions. When I took the test, I did not know what to expect as far as format, content and scoring were concerned. </p>

<p>I attended an underfunded, public high school. My high school has a 40 percent drop out rate, the administration and teachers are more concerned with keeping kids from failing out than with preparing the select few high achievers for the SATs. My high school offered very few AP classes. As far as curriculum goes, there were some years that pre-calculus wasn’t even offered. That was simply the reality of my situation. </p>

<p>I imagine that when my application arrived at Tufts, my SAT scores were not judged only in the context of my income level, but that my family’s educational background and the type of high school I attended were taken into consideration as well. There are some students at Tufts that are first generation college students from low income backgrounds, but attended wonderful private high schools. Everyone’s background is different. Everyone has different experiences and perspectives. And that’s the wonderful thing about Tufts - by accepting students with varying life experiences, they have created an environment that is extremely conducive to interesting conversation and learning from one’s peers. </p>

<p>I would not trade my college experience for anything. And the fact that Tufts’ admissions process does look at academic achievement, SAT scores, extracurriculars, and a student’s background makes me proud to be a jumbo. The student body is incredibly diverse in every way imaginable. The admissions office does a fabulous job.</p>