Clemson--Gaming US News Ranking

<p>From COHE--Pitiful excuse for a university</p>

<p>"Clemson University is run in an almost single-minded direction, with nearly all policies driven by how they will help the land-grant institution rise in U.S. News & World Report’s rankings, according to a university official whose candid comments stirred debate among conference-goers here on Tuesday.</p>

<p>Clemson has doubled its tuition this decade, manipulated class sizes, and even sought to downgrade the academic reputations of other institutions when answering surveys, all in an attempt to meet the goal of pushing the university into the ranks of the top-20 public research institutions, said Catherine E. Watt, the former director of institutional research at Clemson. </p>

<p>In terms of the rankings, the strategy has worked. Clemson was 38th among public research universities in the magazine’s 2001 rankings, she said. In 2008, it had risen to 22nd.</p>

<p>Ms. Watt, who is now director of the Alliance for Research on Higher Education, part of the university’s Strom Thurmond Institute of Government and Public Affairs, spoke at a session at the annual conference of the Association for Institutional Research, which concludes here today.</p>

<p>University representatives could not be reached for comment late Tuesday, after Ms. Watt's afternoon session.</p>

<p>The U.S. News rankings are built on seven basic categories meant to measure the quality of colleges and universities, including academic reputation, financial resources, and graduation rates. Academic reputation, which is determined by surveying officials at institutions about how they rate other universities, carries the greatest weight in the rankings formula, accounting for 25 percent of the total.</p>

<p>While many institutions pay close attention to the rankings, Ms. Watt’s description of the methods used by Clemson was startling in its bluntness and for how pervasively she said the rankings figure in every decision made by administrators."</p>

<p>I absolutely agree with what this person is saying, it seems that sometimes Clemson is only making decisions that will help the school rise in the rankings.</p>

<p>But I am choosing the school because of the school spirit, excellent engineering program and I could care less about some US News rankings :)</p>

<p>Other schools such as Baylor are also doing stuff similar to what Clemson is doing. It isn’t right but it’s the general population’s problem that they are putting too much stock into these US News rankings.</p>

<p>A couple of thoughts from the article: (full article here: [News:</a> ‘Manipulating,’ Er, Influencing ‘U.S. News’ - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/06/03/rankings]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/06/03/rankings))</p>

<p>“Watt said, trying to bump sections with between 21 and 25 students down to 18 or 19, but letting a class with 50 rise to 70. “Two or three students here and there, what a difference it can make,” she said. “It’s manipulation around the edges.””</p>

<p>However, isn’t a school punished for having classes above 50 people in US News? I don’t see a huge problem here. However, US News’s under 20 class size is a problem and I bet many schools do this too to get class sizes under 20. There isn’t a huge difference between a class size of 25 and one of 20.</p>

<p>“Clemson has also transformed its admissions standards, more or less ceasing to admit full-time, first-time undergraduates who are not in the top third of their high school classes, and constantly re-assessing its SAT average throughout the admissions cycle, Watt said, so that admissions officials know whether they “have to increase the SAT score in the next round” of students.”</p>

<p>Is there a problem with being more selective? I don’t have a problem with this either. Also, I’m not in the top third of my class yet I was accepted to Clemson.</p>

<p>“And to actual gasps from some members of the audience, Watt said that Clemson officials, in filling out the reputational survey form for presidents, “rates all programs other than Clemson below average,” to make the university look better. “And I’m confident my president is not the only one who does that,” Watt said.”</p>

<p>This was shocking and it’s very unethical. However, I highly doubt that one school’s survey makes a huge difference.</p>

<p>“Taken together, the changes have had an impact on numerous U.S. News indicators: the proportion of freshmen who were in the top 10 percent of their high school class has risen to 42 from 34 percent; student to faculty ratio has dropped to 14:1 from 16:1; the retention rate of freshmen has climbed to 89 from 82 percent and the graduation rate to 78 from 72 percent. And as those last few results show, Watt said, many of the changes Clemson has made have helped students.”</p>

<p>I don’t think people from the university can manipulate retention and graduation rates…</p>

<p>I wonder if accepting OSS students have any impact on the rankings? Or is the increased OSS applicants due to the increase in rankings? Clemson has probably replaced Miami of Ohio over the last few years at our Connecticut high school for students looking for an OSS public college. I loved Clemson, particularly the strong school spirit and friendly students but it unfortunately does not excel in Psychology, my D’s intended area of study</p>

<p>BobbyCT, it possible could. I don’t mean to be biased but high school students in Connecticut traditionally have higher SAT scores than students in South Carolina. So by accepting more OOS students, Clemson could improve their test scores and the quality of students.</p>

<p>It’s pretty conflicting, for one, you want to improve the quality of your student body but however Clemson needs to remember that the main purpose of the school is to educate the people of South Carolina.</p>

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<p>Yes, you’re right, but once the class reaches 50 you’re dinged all you’re gonna be. So there’s no consequence to making those classes bigger. In fact, it could help you. If you have ten classes of 50 in a certain subject, you could increase enrollment limit and reduce the number of sections. So instead, you have five classes of 100 or two classes of 250 and voila, fewer big classes! You can only do this so much (there are limits to the number of lecture halls, or the courses which lend themselves to this format).</p>

<p>I’ve attended the conference mentioned, but not this year.</p>

<p>It will be interesting to see if the other presidents take a harsher view of Clemson next time they vote.</p>

<p>well barrons, I don’t necessarily think “payback” would be appropriate for the other colleges since that would be also “unethical” on their part. I really dunno, I highly disapprove of President Barker’s ethics and actions on the peer assessment survey but on the other hand US News expects colleges to judge each college based on the college’s facets not on the ethics of the administration (though that could chip into the peer assessment though since president’s won’t have a positive view of Clemson anymore)</p>

<p>I think statistics on avg test scores of high school students in a particular state can be manipulated. Connecticut is high income and South Carolina is low income, by comparison. But South Carolina still graduates a very high number of very bright students, many of whom attend USC-Columbia, Clemson, Furman and Presbyterian College, Wofford College, among others. And they are accepted to some of the nation’s most prestigious colleges and universities outside of South Carolina, including the Ivy League. Ben Bernanke, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, is a Princeton graduate and former Princeton professor who is a native of South Carolina, and I believe still owns a home in SC. </p>

<p>I have less trouble with a school enhancing its admissions standards, or even making classes a bit smaller, than I do with a school intentionally downgrading the academics of peer schools to gain a few spots in the UNSWR rankings. If that is true and accurate, it is despicable conduct. But I also note the author was a former employee and sometimes bitter former employees say things that aren’t always accurate. Is that how the author feels? I dont know.</p>

<p>Its no secret that higher USNWR rankings means colleges get a crack at the top students each year coming out of high school, which they can then herald and parade around in marketing brochures or on websites, to “sell the university” to incoming students down the road. A self fulfilling prophecy if you will. The top schools do it all the time. </p>

<p>But there are thousands of stories of absolutely BRILLIANT professors teaching at more obscure or lower ranking schools, many of whom themselves earned PhD’s at top universities. Thus, the quality of education is not always tied to the ranking in USNWR.</p>

<p>…“I’m shocked–SHOCKED!–to hear that a college is trying to rise in the US News rankings!”</p>

<p>On the other hand, in this economic environment, everybody’s gonna be playing hardball in one way or another. Nothing Clemson is doing is anywhere near as shameless as the lapdance that Notre Dame gave Pres. Obama.</p>

<p>There have been discussions before on collegeconfidential about how misleading the “% of classes-below-25” and “% of classes-above-50” stats are. Ho correctly pointed out one oddity…that once you’re over 50 in a class, you might as well go for 500 or 1000. Another oddity is that because the over-50 classes have more students in them, they weigh more heavily on the % of classes the average student will have with over 50 students in them. In other words, if, say, 25% of classes have over 50 students in them, it could be that the average student will still have, say, 75% of his/her classes with over 50 students in them. Somebody who’s more stats savvy can explain better than I can.</p>

<p>the only good I can see coming out of this is that maybe people will realize how stupid these rankings are.</p>

<p>That won’t happen, especially among the business and engineering students, who like their Truth in numerical form.</p>

<p>Clemson has a website about this. Good for them. We are just jealous that our school isn’t as open as UCI Law School desiring to become among the top 20 law schools in the nation the year it opens or Clemson desiring top become among the top 20 public schools in the nation.</p>

<p>South Carolina really needs to get it’s act together and produce a top 20 public university :0)</p>

<p>[Clemson</a> University : About Clemson : 2011 Goals](<a href=“http://www.clemson.edu/about/2011.html]Clemson”>http://www.clemson.edu/about/2011.html)</p>

<p>I agree with skateboarder. But as long as we’re going to pursue this farcical effort to distort reality with numbers I’ll like to point out that San Diego CA and Waco TX are at the same latitude. (The gullible are free to conclude that since the two cities are at the same latitude that weather is similar at both.)</p>

<p>so NewHope33, if I understand it, you are saying that even though Clemson and Minnesota are tied because Clemson fudged data that Minnesota is clearly better than Clemson?</p>

<p>This certainly shows how pointless it is to survey one college about the academic reputation of another.</p>

<p>Only if one of them lacks scruples. Hopefully most are more honest.</p>

<p>I also think there are sufficient other available data to conclude UMinn>>>Clemson.</p>

<p>^^^Um, not quite. I’m saying the coincidence that they have the same “number” does NOT make them equal.</p>

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<p>I have it on good authority that the gaming of the numbers regarding class size is something that is fairly commonly done …</p>

<p>Go back to the article, scroll to the bottom and read the comments at the bottom.</p>

<p>It seems like there is a divide from the comments between the faculty at Clemson over the top 20 initiative. Some are 100% behind the plan, others are skeptical and angry at President Barker’s actions.</p>

<p>Some snipets from 4 different commenters:</p>

<p>"# Posted by Martine LaBerge, Ph.D., F.B.S.E. , Professor and Chair of Bioengineering at Clemson University on June 3, 2009 at 4:00pm EDT
The information presented in this article was extracted from an Institutional Research Conference. The facts stated should have been verified before publication. Additionally, what has been printed and what Catherine Watt said are irrelevant to facts and have little to do with research.
Catherine Watt said that Clemson is only concerned with attaining a high score from US News. Yet, everyday she has to walk beside the construction site of our new Bioengineering Building. It is a $12M investment. Yet, it has nothing to do with US News rankings.
Clemson’s administration has worked diligently in the past 10 years to achieve the recognition Clemson University deserves. It provides an utmost environment for integrating knowledge and preparing our students to fulfill outstanding careers. It provides the highest level of creative thinking, learning, and innovation. And, we are very proud of that. Attaining a high magazine ranking is something that all universities in the United States seek. However, facts are checked by US News
Since President Barker has taken office, we are more focused and as a result we have better students, our faculty salary and benefits are more competitive, our classes are smaller, our graduation and retention rates are better and our research expenditures are higher. These accomplishments clearly have not been mentioned by Catherine, or perhaps, omitted in this article.
As a department chair, I take part in the US News survey and rank other bioengineering departments. I rank other programs based entirely on my knowledge of them. I know my colleagues do the same. We are professionals and would never do anything else. "</p>

<p>“Ms. Watt, the faculty at Clemson owe you a big thanks for having the courage to present the facts about Clemson and its obsession with gaming the US News rankings. Millions of dollars have been squandered in this meaningless effort. During the past 10 years faculty and staff have watched the quality of education decrease. Good faculty left in disgust, science labs are woefully outdated, and “Smart classrooms” are anything but. But millions were directed to flashy brochures about Clemson, new branding techniques, and to academic success activities for students with high SAT scores to increase retention and graduation rates only to improve rankings. Many of us are also aware that inaccurate data was submitted to US News. Most of the faculty are sick of hearing President Barker’s litany that we are # 22 in US News and # 8 in this and #10th in that. We know that the “hard” data like the amount of federal research dollars, number scholarly articles cited, and major academic awards for faculty and students have not changed. Now we are in the midst of an economic crisis and major budget cuts to the university and as another person commented the University is in a free fall. It is so sad that so much time, money and effort was wasted on the equivalent of winning the swim suit competition in a beauty contest.”</p>

<p>“My name is John Ballato and I had the great honor and privilege to serve the Clemson University faculty for 3 years as the Faculty Representative to the Board of Trustees. During my term, which ended this past December, I participated in many very frank and open discussions with faculty, staff, and administration, including closed Trustee retreats, about strategies and tactics.
My first comment in response to this article is to make abundantly clear that Ms. Watt is not the voice of the faculty, staff, or students at Clemson. At best, she (and the un-named “Truth At Last” author) represent a vocal minority, but a minority none-the-less.
Secondly, and unlike the other Clemson employees contributing to this dialog, being a first-hand participant as a representative of the faculty in institutional strategic planning I can say without reservation that the focus was always on quality - quality of faculty, staff, students, and facilities - that has driven Clemson’s efforts. Clemson’s growth in US News rankings is a result of the hard decisions that have been made on where resources should be invested and not a result of chasing a US News number. Anyone who thinks Clemson’s focus is not on the students and faculty are out of touch. It needs to be kept in mind that we live in a State that is not committed to higher education and the state institutions have seen a disproportional cut in funding. Furloughs, deferred hiring, reduced travel are unfortunate but necessary evils when many of our sister schools around the country are laying off faculty. Times are tough but there is no better job than a tenured faculty member where one has the luxury to spend time putting down the very institution that is working hard to keep them in a job.
Thirdly, during this Top-20 period, Clemson’s SAT scores have grown greatly, sponsored research awards have tripled, we have more spin-off companies creating higher wage jobs than ever before and we are more focused on our mission rather than deviating from it to pursue a number.”
Along this lines, it is worth noting that, as a Professor, I also have been the largest generator of research funds at Clemson over the past 6 years at least, among the top in scholarly output (publications and citations), have spun out a successful company, all while teaching my classes and graduating students. I see considerably better students now than we did 10 years ago and Clemson’s investment in our programs are growing, not declining; another clear indication that resources are being targeted towards where the greatest productivity lies. For those more disgruntled, I suspect that it is because productivity does not warrant investment.
Lastly, I am amazed that Inside Higher Ed and the Chronicle of Higher Education would write an article using purely anecdotal accusations without permitting the administration time (more than a late Tuesday night email for a Wednesday AM article) to respond in kind or contacting faculty, staff, or student representatives for their comments. This level of journalism is more expected from the likes of People Magazine or the National Inquirer.</p>

<p>“To the fierce defenders of CU, recruited through an email message that went out to faculty earlier in the day, your attempts to shame the reporters of legitimate concerns show your true colors, or lack thereof. You and your ilk are fostering the insidious, retaliatory culture that presently exists at the university. Your attempts to squelch debate are quintessential CU.”</p>