<p>Interestdad, we LIVE in a drinking culture. Our kids grow up in a highly sexualized, consumerist society. You’re laying this at the feet of Andover and Groton? Schools which educate a tiny sliver of the HS students in this country?</p>
<p>Why not get aggravated that a Seton Hall student was murdered at a party over the weekend? Seems that drugs and alchohol were involved. Doesn’t look like ANYONE remotely connected came from a feeder or elite HS. How does a guy with a gun show up at a college party and start blasting people’s heads off?</p>
<p>I despise the drunken college culture as much as you do but think you are chasing a rabbit down a hole if you think the elite prep schools play much of a role in this. Trust me- kids are getting drunk at Southern Connecticut State at the same rate, if not more, than at Yale down the street and there ain’t no elites at SCU.</p>
<p>Interesteddad- Wow, wow, I dont even know where to begin! Did you or one of your kids get rejected from a “prep school”??? Why so much anger? You cant possibly believe every kid that attends a prep school is a drunk? So public school kids dont drink or do drugs? You cant possibly be so naive. Never a good idea to paint with such a broad brush.</p>
<p>ID…were there any “Otis the town drunks” at your D’s high school? Most high schools have 'em. Should your D have been accepted at Swarthmore? </p>
<p>And what about kids who don’t drink in high school but get drunk in college? Should their high schools be blacklisted for sending that student to college? </p>
<p>How does every GC know if a kid drinks off campus in high school? Not everyone is caught. </p>
<p>Students who are suspended are reported on the GC report. I had an advisee one year who was applying to college from a boarding school. She had a suspension on her record for underage purchase of alcohol which was on her school report to colleges and she had to put it on her apps (she was on probation). During the admissions process, she got caught in a second more serious alcohol situation where someone died from the school. She was forced to withdraw from the prep school. It was all reported to colleges. So, known suspensions are reported. But GCs cannot be responsible for all kids who drink outside of school time. </p>
<p>Also, how do you define “town drunk”? How would a GC discern this and what would be the criteria? </p>
<p>And students who choose not to get involved in the drinking culture (such as my own kids when in high school and I imagine your D too) should not be penalized because there are some kids at their HS who do drink.</p>
<p>To the best of anyone’s knowledge, nobody from my daughter’s high school had ever applied to Swarthmore before, so Swarthmore would have had no reason to blacklist my daughter’s high school for sending town drunks.</p>
<p>I believe that, since my daughter, her old high school has sent another kid to Swarthmore.</p>
<p>I believe that, if any college were ever to become serious about drunkenness on campus, they could do a very simple analysis of the drunks and make simple changes in the admissions profile to curtail the binge drinking rate. I mean, it’s obvious that this already happens in some cases. Many colleges have a lower percentage of drunks in the student body; many have a higher percentage. They are obviously doing something different in their admissions profile.</p>
<p>My theory is that many college want the drunks and go out of their way to enroll them. For example, I would be willing to bet, without even looking, that Clemson’s official website heavily promotes “fraternity life”. Surely they don’t think promoting fraternities will attract more non-drinkers?</p>
<p>Just like Bank of America and GE and NorthwesternMutual want drunks so they go out and recruit on college campuses since everyone knows that college kids drink? And of course if corporate America ever got serious about eliminating drunks from their ranks they could just recruit at BYU, right?</p>
<p>So, ID, if the college has a student with a drinking problem (in fact, the drinking problem could have developed once in college), and they look up where that kid went to high school, nobody else from that high school should ever be accepted again? Maybe that “drunk” from that high school was an exception at that high school. What reflection does it have on that high school? What if your D went to that high school and was not a “town drunk?” And how does a GC know just which kids drink or will drink too much in college? A GC doesn’t know everything about a student unless the student got caught drinking. Then the GC does report suspensions on applications.</p>
<p>Also, at my kids’ high school, one third of the students never go to college. Maybe those kids party a lot. College admissions is not a concern for them. Should my kid be penalized that she attends such a high school when she doesn’t engage in that behavior in high school? Or drinking aside, should my kid not have a chance at an elite college because well, not too many kids from her high school attend such colleges? Each student should be evaluated on their own merits.</p>
<p>I believe that colleges would find certain admissions profiles that correlated with drunkeness beyond random chance of one isolated student. I believe that, if they really wanted to know, they would find that certain feeder schools and certain admissions profiles contribute disproportionately to the number of drunks on campus. It would then be an obvious step to simply reduce the chances of admissions for students fitting that profile. It’s not like admissions offices aren’t very highly skilled at profiling applicants.</p>
<p>Just as a hypothetical example, let’s say that, over the course of a five year analysis, Hoity Toit U found that Dunbarton lacross players kept popping up on the logs of alcohol infractions on campus. Wouldn’t it be logical to stop accepting Dunbarton lacross players? I mean, that’s exactly what they would do if they found that Dunbarton lacross players were flunking out at abnormal rates. This isn’t rocket science. Of course, the lacross team might not win as many games.</p>
<p>Again, Clemson is making a show of a stand against drunks, but it’s so hypocritical when they specifically market to attract a higher percentage of drunks.</p>
<p>interesteddad,
You should read up on the history of drinking alcohol. It has been accepted in academic circles since Greek times. In fact, I have a fuzzy recollection that one of the great Greek philosophers said something to the effect that the only use for teetotallers is in the taking care of children.</p>
<p>OP - my son’s Fraternity is dry. No alcohol in the house even if you are of age. Dry social functions. They also perform a lot of community service. I know for a fact it is dry since I have showed up at the house with 5 minutes notice. No alcohol anywhere. I’ve looked in the community fridge. </p>
<p>So painting all Greek organizations with a broad brush is just stupid.</p>
<p>I suspect that some of what ID is proposing does actually happen. For example, the Landon School has received numerous black eyes in recent years, from the SAT cheating scandal, the murder of a UVa lacrosse player by a Landon lacrosse alum, and many others. If I were an admissions dean, I would scrutinize any Landon applicant more closely. Just think of the grief that would be visited on an admissions dean if a Landon alum were to commit any sort of serious offense.</p>
<p>^^^Thank you for the chuckle this early in the morning. </p>
<p>Perhaps, as I inferred early on ID’s kid didn’t get into the school of choice. Fantastic way to eliminate competition. Every college campus would be empty because every school, every business, every church, synagogue and yes probably mosque, and temple (for Mormons) has someone who drinks too much.</p>
<p>It isn’t just the Greeks who get drunk. Kids go to college and amid the trees where they discuss Proust and philosophy, get drunk. This action by Clemson is a wonderful way of deflecting a problem and getting sensationized press. I have found that the kids who were held in the closest check are the ones who, freshman year at least (Greek or non Greek) go wild.</p>
<p>No. Sorry. My kids have nothing in common with any other kid at XYZ Public HS other than their parents all chose to live in the same general part of town. That’s ridiculous and unfair. You’re punishing the wrong people for the sins of people that they have no connection to.</p>
<p>I don’t agree that ID is bashing all Greeks. Yes, I’ll say that he IS exaggerating, but there’s a point in all that exaggeration. Colleges need to constructively address problem drinkers that they NOW HAVE ON CAMPUS. Wasn’t the inebrieated behavior of the accused UVirginia lacrosse athlete ignored and dismissed as harmless until he allegedly killed his ex-girlfriend in a rage?</p>
<p>I also would love to know the definition of “town drunk” in high school…what criteria should the guidance counselor use to identify “town drunks” in order to let the college know?</p>
<p>Oh, and curm…you know you have been on CC too long when you know the name “Otis.”</p>
<p>ID, where does your “profiling” end? For instance, you haven’t been too supportive of athletes either. I’d hate to think that the elite colleges that accepted my D would profile her in a negative light because she plays sports. (she’s not a problem drinker)</p>
<p>ID, if I may, I have been curious for years on CC how it is that you continually refer to those who drink in college as “Otis, the town drunk.” How did you come up with that name?</p>
<p>The name Otis is a boy’s name . The origin of the baby name Otis is Old English, Greek with the meaning(s) depending on Gender/Origin being</p>
<p>Old English- Son of Otto, Son of the wealthy, prosperous one|One who hears well. </p>
<p>So, is this about just guys (don’t some girls get drunk too?) Only wealthy properous drinkers? (poor kids get drunk too) Only those who hear well? (deaf kids get drunk too)</p>