Clueless about costs

Hello! My child will be a HS junior in Arkansas. They have taken the ACT 2X and scored a 32 composite so far. Our household is only parents and 1 child. We have a household income of $175,000 - $200,000. Due to life changes we have not been saving for her college education like we should. We have money in a 401K and own our home but not enough in it for a home equity loan. If she wants to go to an out of state school, possibly a more prestigious school, would she be able to obtain student loans to cover the tuition? I know they do not give academic scholarships like they did when I went to college…I didn’t have to pay a dime with a ACT score of 27… Should I be pushing her to an instate school? Again we are clueless… and she has high hopes of going out of state.

Let me add she wants to major in Computer Science

It isn’t a question of if, it is a question of should. She will be able to get loans up to 5,500 freshman year (27k total for 4 years). Anything above that you will have to sign for.

What can you afford? She likely can afford to go out of state, but probably to public options that are similar to her in-state publics except outside of AR.

“household income of $175,000 - $200,000”

You should run the net price calculator on any university before your child applies. If you Google "net price calculator " you will find it.

Your income puts you in the range that need based financial aid is unlikely, but paying $80,000 per year for a private university is very painful.

What can you afford to pay for your child’s education? As one example, if you can afford to pay $40,000 per year, and if a school costs $75,000 per year, the difference is HUGE. There is no way that anyone should borrow $100,000 or more for any bachelor’s degree. This would only be possible at all if the parents co-sign the loans, but even then is a bad idea. The current pandemic and the associated economic downturn is putting some families in a bad way that had borrowed money in the recent past.

For us the most affordable schools were in-state public schools, and universities in Canada. However we live a lot closer to the border than you do so that many Canadian schools are a reasonable drive for us. My understanding is that there are some more affordable universities in the south that we did not look at since we live in the north of the US. We did find some good out of state universities that gave enough merit based aid to help significantly.

It seems very likely that you are going to need to pay close attention to the cost of education in deciding which schools are possible and which schools are not.

If you post more about your child’s stats (such as unweighted GPA) other parents on this web site should be able to suggest some appropriate and relatively affordable schools.

Top 3 in her class, 4.0 unweighted GPA, will graduate with with approx 14 AP classes.

Agree with the above…max student loans for undergrad are $27K: Anything above that would be on the parents, and more than that is probably too much debt.

You may want to look into schools that offer automatic or relatively high levels of merit, based generally on stats. Don’t know her unweighted GPA, but some schools to look at include U Alabama, Miami Ohio, Clarkson, College of Wooster, Iowa State. An ACT of 32 is great, but getting even one point higher could result in additional merit.

Run each school’s net price calculator to get an estimate of your expected costs…some NPCs include merit, some don’t. If you post your D’s uwGPA and preferences with regard to college, e.g., size, geography, setting, etc. you will get great suggestions. Does she like any of her in-state public options? Are they affordable?

Make sure to have a balanced list with a couple of reaches, 4-6 match schools, and at least one affordable safety. Note that CS major is often highly competitive and acceptance rates may be much lower than the school’s average admit rate. For example UIUC has an overall acceptance rate of 65% or so, and CS acceptance rate this year was 4%. Not a typo. 4%.

Good point by @DadTwoGirls. There are also unis overseas that are comparable to top publics here but aren’t as expensive as OOS for top publics or full-pay at an American private. For instance, McGill is comparable in reputation to UMich (though not as well-funded) and has some degrees like Arts and Arts&Science that allow her to study CS but costs about as much as an (expensive) in-state public for Americans. Waterloo has a top CS program (has among the top representations in Silicon Valley) and not very expensive for Americans but tough to get in to.

Degrees in England are 3 years and I would consider Durham=UNC/UVa, Warwick=UCSD (Oxbridge=HYPSM but very difficult to get in to). Scottish degrees are 4 years. St. Andrews = a cross of W&M and Dartmouth; Edinburgh=UT-Austin/UW-Madison/UMich. That would make Glasgow=TAMU/UMTC/MSU and they do offer smallish scholarships). Tuition for Americans at UK schools would be a bit more than in-state but less than privates (and bachelor’s in England are 3 years, though you typically only study the subject or 2 you signed up for though Natural Sciences at Durham allows more choice).

There are also big named scholarships at some top privates and publics that are very difficult to get (but some more possible than others).

With an income in your range, you will be expected to contribute a good portion of your kid’s college costs. Need based aid will not be forthcoming at most schools. You would get some need based aid at THE most generous schools but these are also highly competitive for admissions.

  1. How much CAN you pay annually for your kid’s college education?
  2. Can you afford the costs at your instate public university?
  3. Yes, she can apply to OOS public universities, but the costs will be a lot higher than your instate universities. Ditto most private universities.

Schools you might want to consider…because she would qualify for decent merit aid…University of New Mexico, Arizona. I’m not sure if a 32 is high enough for merit at Alabama.

@mom2collegekids can explain aid at Alabama.

@WayOutWestMom can explain aid at U of New Mexico.

Are you self employed? Do you own a business? Do you own real estate in addition to your primary residence? If NO to all three, complete the net price calculators on the college websites. This will give you a rough estimate…very rough…as these are currently set for students enrolling fall 2020. If your daughter is enrolling 2021, use the 2019 tax return info to complete the net price calculators.

Keep in mind, these NPCs are reset annually! Usually toward the very end of the summer. It is very very possible that financial aid formulas will be adjusted this next year especially in light of the current economic crisis. It’s very possible that some places might not be able to be as generous as in the past.

So…do the NPCs now for a rough estimate, but plan to do them again say September.

Computer Science is pretty standard from college to college. I’ll let others speak to that.

I’m flagging @CourtneyThurston who did a great job getting aid. Maybe she has some ideas of where to look as well as some college suggestions…if she is still reading on this forum.

I wouldn’t say CS is standard across all colleges but you’d have to investigate to see the differences and in any case, the drive and interest of the student matters most.

BTW, would she be willing to go abroad? What AP scores does she have?

What preferences does she have?(granted, teenagers change their mind all the time)

UNM offers a range of merit scholarships–some of them guaranteed–starting with a 26 ACT score(with 3.0 GPA)

https://scholarship.unm.edu/scholarships/

The Amigo (26 Act/ 3.0 unweighted GPA) will get her instate tuition.
Annual tuition costs for a full time student $7366/year for 2020-21
Room & board is likewise reasonable at around $11K/year for a traditional dorm and highest level meal plan.

UNM offers an ABET-accredited CS program, with summer internship opportunities available at Los Alamos National Lab, Sandia National Lab, Air Force Research Lab, White Sands. Plus Facebook just opened a major data center. UNM offers one of few graduate physics/engineering programs in quantum computing in the US.

Ok slightly confused here, you own your home outright but can not get a home equity loan against it? U of A is roughly 19 K a year to live there, so that is your base cost , if you got no aid you and your kid need to come up with 19K a year , they can borrow $5,500 their first year , it goes up slightly each year. So in this case you have to be able to pay roughly 14,000 each year. I doubt you will get FA but she should get some merit, which reduces the cost and public colleges tend to take more AP credits. If she decides to go to Georgia Tech for CS for example the out of state cost is roughly 45,000, she could still get the $5,500 gov loan but you would have to come up with 40K a year to offset the rest. Again I doubt you would get FA but merit is a possibility
You will more than likely not find a better deal than staying in state bc your instate flagship is pretty cheap, for example Rutgers in NJ is about 30K a years vs. 20 for U of A. The real factor here is 2 things can you afford to pay for her to go out of state either public or non public. ? She can not just take loans for 100% of the cost unless you are willing to take them for her. Second is how much merit scholarships she can get instate or out of state and you will not know that until the child applies and gets accepted. As mentioned run the NPC for some schools she is thinking about to get a rough idea.

How much are you willing and able to pay for college? As others have said, you can get some idea of what you will be expected to pay at various schools of interest. You won’t get much in financial aid, IMO, given your situation.

As an excellent student and very good test scores, your DD might get merit money. Is time to look at what schools give scholarships and where she would have a shot at getting some awards. Her chill might have some info in this regard. This forum has great resources as well.

The most important schools to have on the college list are affordable ones, that give your D the experiences and opportunities she seeks, that will mos likely take her. Once there are a few schools that fit in that category, one can start taking some chances on admissions and scholarships.

Welcome to CC! I hope we can give you valuable, useful information.

Your child is a soph and has 2 official ACT scores so far?
Don’t sit any more until she preps.

Target NMF for merit at some nice schools that might be affordable, so prep for the PSAT she sits as a junior.

Does Arkansas have reciprocity agreements with any other states for tuition? (Wis/Minn do; western states have WUE)

She’d get the Brown and Gold scholarship at Wyoming, which would bring the already low OOS tuition down. If she just wants to go OOS to go OOS, there are several college that have good scholarships, but most are in the frozen tundra of ND, SD, MT, WY.

You have 2 years to save up. Start putting the amount you think you can pay away now. If it is $1000/mo, you’d have $24k in 2 years and could continue putting that amount away while she’s in school.

You state that you are looking for an OOS/ “more prestigious “ school. If the school only offers need based aid and there is a non-custodial parent, take them off of your list now.

Many of the “most prestigious “schools only offer need based aid. You will be closed to full pay just based on your income alone. Add the non-custodial parent to the mix, aid will be non-existent.

Your best bet will be to chase merit scholarship money. I agree with others; she should prep to raise her score.

All of the above are excellent posts filled with good information.

I was going to mention Alabama and several other colleges with automatic merit. Often the directional Us offer automatic merit for students and some have great STEM. Huntsville in Alabama will offer her merit.

From a different angle I wanted to offer you a few more tools to help narrow your search.

  1. Has she considered a women’s college? Many offer merit and are top schools and they are reserved just for women. Many women who attend women’s colleges achieve disproportionately higher in their fields compared with those who attended coed schools. Also, women’s colleges produce more STEM women compared with coed schools. One myth is that at women’s colleges you never see men. Some schools have more men than others. Barnard (need-based aid only) and Bryn Mawr see a lot of men as the have co-ed “brother” campuses and Bryn Mawr also has a grad program with some men. Many women’s colleges are parts of consortia which means the students can attend classes at other schools freely (or almost freely). Smith (offers merit money) is in a consortium with UMass Amherst, Amherst, Mt. Holyoke (offers merit money). Bryn Mawr’s (offers merit money) brother school is Haverford and she could also take classes at Swarthmore and University of Pennsylvania. These are all top schools. Wellesley advertises on its website that it offers enough aid for students if they’re accepted to attend. I’ve heard of occasions when they’ve worked with parents and adjusted FA to make that work. Wellesley allows students to take classes at MIT but because of distance those classes would be fewer. Your daughter’s stats seem to be in the range for merit at several of these schools. Smith has a special scholarship she may want to consider.

  2. Has she considered other private colleges and universities that have good STEM? Many offer merit. One way to research how much you’d pay as a family is to do the net price calculator on the websites. STEM-strong LACs include Union in Schenectady, Lehigh, and Lafayette. All of those schools have strong Greek presence FYI. She might also consider Emory, Wake Forest, Rice and there are many others. Private schools often offer merit money.

One general rule if you’re seeking merit is to be in the top 25% of their applicant pool. Also with the COVID issue, many colleges are making additional offers to students this year at least to ensure a full class. What happens next year is anyone’s guess. It may be that they have too many people next year and can’t accept as many students–because many students this year may gap rather than take online courses in the fall. Or it may be that these schools don’t get enough applications because more people are choosing local in-state schools–and these privates may be eager to get out of state people such as your daughter and may offer extra FA as a result. No one knows what they will receive in FA until they get the FA offer after acceptance. Even then there’s a negotiating period with the school, often, wherein you can ask for additional aid. Best wishes!!!

If your DD wants to go somewhere out of state, more prestigious, start looking at costs now and see what you think you can afford. Sounds like you are both off to a good start.

As you mentioned the higher ranked schools don’t always offer scholarships. They don’t need to; they can attract kids without discounts. Lower ranked schools offer schollys to buy high stats kids so their rankings will increase.

**PSAT jr yr ** Have your DD study now for the one-day PSAT test junior year. Its only offered once for all juniors; but there are schools that offer good scholarships covering tuition and room and board if your DD does well.

R&B is pricey. Plan on spending 11-15K on it at least the first year. Many freshmen are required to stay on campus. It can go down a little through the years.

Ideas: Here’s a school not mentioned yet that took only 19% of the Out of State (OOS) kids who applied - and gave many of them the price of instate tuition - Florida State. I also personally think University of Tulsa has it going on . . .

For Reference: We have 4 kids and < similar income. We have to go the merit route. Our 2020 son - has yearly tuition offers from schools ranging from $negative tuition → $0K (instate) → $2k → $3K → $6k → $10K → $25K. He has a 34 ACT and 3.97 GPA. He refused to write essays; so those offers were all from automatic merit; all but one were public schools.

good luck; hope you stay on this forum; you’ll find a ton of good info.

My one kid and two of my nieces wanted large flagship state schools. Although after visits and researching other school types, that was still what they felt was ideal for them.

Our state system, SUNY, did offer Buffalo which comes in at a reasonable (to us) full price of about $28k these days for first year students but room and board costs can be greatly mitigated by cheap hosing available off campus. He liked the big city setting over the more bucolic state schools like Penn State and West Virginia, etc. Still his list included a large contingent of flagship state schools, most all OOS.

He was accepted to all of them despite lower than average test scores for them, but not a dime in merit money was he offered. Other kids did get smatterings if awards but, really, significant money is had to get. These days, theSe OOS state Flagship schools run $50-60k and rarely give much financial aid to even those OOSes who are needy.

The big awards are highly competitive. Higher test scores are important for your DD to be in the running for them. I can tell you that my youngest with a 34 ACT and 4.0 unweighted didn’t get full ride type awards to Alabama and Temple, but nothing from schools like Michigan, and about $6k from Penn State. Looking at who got the big awards from some other big name state schools, highly unlikely he would have gotten much from them.

As for student loans, beyond the Direct Loan amounts ($5500 freshmen year), you’d essentially have to take out those loans. IMO, as it should be. I do not believe that a teenager fueled by the momentum of the college search should be making commitments for hundreds of thousands of dollars. If, you, her parent, want to make that gift, go on ahead. Co-signing is really just legally making the student liable for repayment along with you. You can take out the PLUS loans and they are forgive if you or student die and don’t hamstring a young adult. You can make the financial decision for yourself based on YOUR financial situation and savvy.

We took those PLUS loans for our oldest and started repayment immediately, while he was going to college. It was a long tough go. Not having onerous student loans has made life a lot easier for our kids. It’s a huge stress for many young people.