<p>Oh yeah, fca717, my son can’t function because of this.</p>
<p>Okay it was only a matter of time until parent57 went personal and negative it is kind of their style. Though my son goes to Pomona until today I have always remarked on this board and to others I meet what a great school CMC is. My son has found the classes he has taken at CMC stimulating and beneficial. It is, and I trust will continue to be, the fantastic institution it has always been. However, no matter how you try and spin it this is not a small thing but a rather large black mark on the school. Bringing in problems with other schools does not negate what went on over a period of years at CMC. If my child had an ED admission would I ask that their binding agreement be removed? Of course not. The academics of the college have not changed. The benefits of a Claremont education are not any less. Companies that have hired CMC students in the past know what they are getting. But if I was paying the large sum of money a Claremont education costs I would want to know that a full review of the admissions process was going on. This appears to be the case. College is part of the maturation process. If we expect honesty in our children we should expect no less from the schools they attend. And parent57 try and be constructive with your posts. I must assume you want to spread positive impressions of CMC.</p>
<p>@parent57 “Oh yeah, fca717, my son can’t function because of this.”</p>
<p>Your son is so lucky that he can handle this. After all, this scandal is nothing (despite the extensive media coverage). I, on the other hand will take the afternoon off because I cannot function after you said my comment is the dumbest ever. I suppose media outlets such as the NYT, LAT, CNN, etc. will replace the media coverage from “CMC SAT scandal” to “FCA719 dumbest CC post” and this will affect my future.</p>
<p>You know, 70’s, when people come here to sanctimoniously bash CMC, particularly when a number of them are posters from Pomona, it is irritating to say the least. No one is trying to whitewash this, but some of the posters have become unhinged by this incident. The college is dealing with it and will fix the problem. If you come here and make outlandish statements (check some of the posts), I am going to call you out on it.</p>
<p>Yeah actually I made 1350 on the SAT but because Claremont’s SAT average range was 1390-1450 according to what I read in U.S. News I assumed that I was too much of a long shot. Then when my arch enemy in H.S. who made 1340 got accepted to Claremont when it was his reach school I was livid for years because I could never understand how he made it in.</p>
<p>Just kidding.</p>
<p>I said my piece. Your problem isn’t with me. If you think this is not about consumerism then you fail to understand the situation.</p>
<p>hey it’s just more confidence for lower-scorers like myself!</p>
<p>I think what bothers me about this is the it’s “only 10 points.” Everything that has been said about the quality of the school remains the same but imagine if an applicant was found to have raised his or her gpa by a quarter of a point or even a tenth of a point. Would he be let off with he’s still the same student? In the Gatekeepers they talk about an applicant who turns herself in for buying a pot brownie. Did the right thing, everything. Even with the admission’s officer on her side, she couldn’t get over the “drug” incident. </p>
<p>Just one person? Don’t post their common data set? One way or another it’s a reflection of a not very pretty strain that exists (among many other positive ones, I’m sure) at the school.</p>
<p>I want everyone to remember this is a forum where posters, who are interested in possibly applying to CMC, come to ask questions and learn about the school. If you want to discuss overarching philosophical questions regarding this topic or want to take pot shots at CMC, I would respectfully ask you to take your comments to another forum, such as admissions or the parents forum.</p>
<p>I’m a Parent who who fell in love with CMC when my son visited Pomona & Pitzer. </p>
<p>I think the college is handling this as best as they can. When I first learned of this last night, my first thought was “10 pts is so little.” Then it hit me, if the difference of only 10 measly pts is enough to pressure someone to lie for a push in the ratings, what the heck does this say about the almighty power of the ratings game. That is where the media should focus - the power of the ratings.</p>
<p>This situation does not change my opinion of the strong education CMCs staff and student body has to offer.</p>
<p>Sorry but why is this receiving so much coverage? Why didn’t people fly off the handle when Clemson was discovered to be manipulating rankings? Or when USC (CA) was outed for lying about faculty award counts?</p>
<p>I’m pretty certain that most top schools, including HYPSM, manipulate their numbers, whether or not for rankings (although it ends up having an effect). They’re just more subtle/implicit/sneaky about it. IMO all of HYPSM have mutual “Tufts Syndrome,” which comes out when they admit the next class and strategically admit students. Universities might look at historical yield rates from certain areas or high schools, or for certain applicant characteristics (like a focus on science, or an SAT range, e.g. one study found that at Princeton the students in the 92-93rd percentile got in at far higher rates than those in the 98-99th percentile, the only part of the curve where SAT score and acceptance rate were negatively correlated - funny how that works). They’ll over-waitlist and admit students from those who accept a spot (someone called this “WashU syndrome”). Worst of all, though this is never questioned given how common it is - early decision programs. Then there are the other factors like faculty resources, where one might include the higher compensation of senior faculty who never interact with undergrads.</p>
<p>Bottom line: the data can be crunched and manipulated in many concealable ways, and the most this Vos guy can be faulted for is stupidity for not trying harder. All these universities are manipulating numbers. The lower-ranked ones are doing it to get a higher spot, and the higher-ranked ones are doing it to keep their spot.</p>
<p>@parent57 “I want everyone to remember this is a forum where posters, who are interested in possibly applying to CMC, come to ask questions and learn about the school. If you want to discuss overarching philosophical questions regarding this topic or want to take pot shots at CMC, I would respectfully ask you to take your comments to another forum, such as admissions or the parents forum.”</p>
<p>The truth is revealed… This is affecting someone’s functioning… And it is giving a bitter taste in someone’s mouth.</p>
<p>fca, you have already posted 8 times on this topic today. If you want to get into a fight with me, it is not going to happen. I already told you what I think about some of your posts.</p>
<p>Are 8 posts the daily limit or something?</p>
<p>As a current CMC sophomore I would like to say a couple of things.
I find it both insulting and despicable that so many of you feel the need to admonish the school as a whole, and therefore the student body, for the mistake of an administration. We all know that the problem is not the specific score inflation but the way in which it was covered up/allowed to continue for so long. However, to suggest that such an unfortunate situation is cause for ED students to rethink attending the school is simply ludicrous. I don’t know a single student at CMC, let alone at any high caliber institution, who took average SAT scores into deep consideration during the college process. SAT scores are 7.5% of the USNWR college ranking formula, and if you have been following the national news coverage of the story, it has been made very clear that the corrected scores will likely have no effect on CMC’s ranking. That being said, this moral transgression has absolutely no effect on the phenomenal education that I and my classmates are receiving on campus. We have not become a top ten liberal arts school less then seventy years after our founding because of our SAT score average - we are a top ten liberal arts school because of the incredible education the school provides. I got a 2390 on the SAT and a 36 on the ACT and chose CMC over thirteen other schools because CMC was the only school that I felt could provide me with both the education and experience I felt I needed, and I could not have made a better choice. While this situation is certainly embarrassing, I resent that many of you, whether consciously or otherwise, are implying that this is ANY way impacts the value of a CMC education. And to whoever said that companies will be thinking twice about hiring CMC grads now…. I don’t even know what to say to you. I can absolutely guarantee that NONE of the major companies that consistently employ CMC alumni will allow this situation to affect the hiring process. I don’t even feel the need to explain further because I agree with Parent57 (to an extent)… that was ridiculous.
In all honesty, it’s hurtful to read what some of you are saying about my school. The actions of the administration have absolutely nothing to do with this student body’s talents, accomplishments, and intelligence. My class’ average SAT scores do not reflect the qualities that make us CMCers, and this group of 315 people will be more successful than most of you can comprehend.
CMC is certainly not the first school to pad statistics for rankings and will most definitely not be the last – criticize our administration all you want, but do not for a second bring the school as an entire institution into this.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>Parent57: I’m glad that you’re proud of CMC, but attacking anyone who slights CMC on these boards is not helping. I know you’re trying to defend the school’s reputation, but you’re coming across as belligerent and nasty. </p>
<p>Especially in this situation, there’s not much to defend. Manipulating SAT data for years is just shocking. Truly sad.</p>
<p>–CMC Alum</p>
<p>I don’t know how you qualify ‘deep consideration,’ but SAT statistics are a useful metric potential students can use to understand one, somewhat generalized aspect of the student body. </p>
<p>Although SAT scores don’t tell the whole story of a school or a student, over a large enough sample, they do tell you something. No doubt it would be more interesting if SAT scores were presented (to the prospective student) in a format other than the one currently in use. </p>
<p>In identifying schools to visit or apply to, I found SAT scores a useful benchmark, and did consider them. I agree with everyone who has stated that exaggerating or manipulating data like this is probably widespread and does not change the quality of education. Same school, but with a PR problem now.</p>
<p>Is anyone else curious what caused CMC to release this information? Also, why are current SAT scores reported /1600 vs /2400?</p>
<p>I think some see the moral transgression as greater than a mere 10 points not so much because of the length of time that this has been happening or because of its potential effects on rankings, but because that 10-20 points per section could just as easily been substantially more. Since applicants can be duped to believe the scores were marginally higher, they could just as easily been duped to believe the scores were 50 points per section higher than they were. Either way it makes no sense to condemn CMC as a whole, and any truly interested applicant would see that.</p>
<p>The moral part of this debate aside, one thing this has shown us: the state of college admissions in the US has reached an absurd level when people are outraged by 10 points, and some of the nation’s major news outlets have a full story covering it. (The contrast between that story and the accompanying news articles on the growing economic inequities and big bank lobbying really puts this in perspective.)</p>
<p>@anonymoustransfe CMC, like some other colleges, does not look at the writing section of the SAT when evaluating applicants. the scores reported out of 1600 are critical reading and math combined.</p>
<p>As soon as I saw this on my computer, I thought “I wonder how many CC threads there already are about this?”</p>
<p>boneyking, I hear you, but at the point I got involved in this thread it was turning into a mudslinging contest about the school and its students. Yeah, I know that I may be too direct (polite way of putting it) and this is serious and needs to be dealt with, but I don’t think hyperbolic statements stereotyping the school is particularly helpful. It is not the end of the world and if it turns out that one person is responsible for this, it will not stigmatize the school. I know fudging the scores by 10 points is not good, but I don’t think it is a felony. Lately, the posters have been much more rational and I have toned down my remarks.</p>