Though “heck” may not be the word they use.
I’ve never heard that CMU auditions that many kids. I know that Tisch auditions just over 2000 each year (that’s for all studios) and they have a larger program, a far larger faculty/admissions staff/assistants, etc. so it makes sense that they would be able to handle that with little to no effect on their current students. I would be very surprised if CMU auditions as many, let alone more, than that.
Here’s my two cents: does it really matter? I mean, unless you’re going there and are concerned the faculty might not have time to really be teaching. Let’s face it, most of the reach and even now what used to be considered fit schools have odds of getting in that are worse than the Ivies. And the only thing our kids can control is their audition, not how many others are auditioning or what the auditors’ reaction might be.
I have to disagree with you @halflokum as far as numbers go. i think the numbers for CMU are in the range of 2000-2500 And I do not think it takes too much faculty time away from current students.
For CMU. the schedule in Post #13 shows that for MT and Acting there are only 8 days of “school day” auditions (meaning held M-Fri) for the entire year. And not all faculty will attend all of those 8 days. I do not believe the faculty are away from school for an inordinate numbers of days. They also don’t work a traditional 40 hour work week. Long hours, evenings and weekends are part of the job as is evidenced by the weekends they devote to auditions and shows.
Post #10 explains how they audition up to 200 people per day at Unifieds. It is very doable. And they do it well. So if, for argument’s sake, during Unifieds they audition 800 in Chicago, say 400 in NYC and 200 in LA they will have auditioned 1400 just in those 3 locations. Add to those numbers the 5 on campus audition dates and say they audition 150 per weekend at each of those you are up to 2150. The math works as does their audition process. i also assume their numbers are for acting and MT combined since most candidates are considered for both majors.
I would say a typical auditionee may only spend a few minutes with each faculty member. And some will see only one of the acting faculty while others will be seen by both. It just depends. But actual in the room time in front of each is probably only 5 minutes or less for most applicants. A typical 16 bar cut takes about 45 seconds to sing. So if you sing 2 cuts that is 90 seconds. A minute or two of feedback for each cut plus a minute or two of other discussion and you are on to the next part of the audition. Same for monologues. Some will get more time. Some less but all will be treated with respect and will feel their audition was valued. Knowing that the actual time in the room is not great, it is a testament to how the CMU folks treat the auditionee that so many come away feeling they’ve had quality time and feedback with them.
This short amount of time of actually being evaluated by auditors is true of many schools and one reason I wasn’t a huge fan of on campus auditions. You spend a lot of time and money for what amounts to 15 minutes or less of actual auditioning. The rest of the time is taken up with tours, panel discussions, maybe sit in on a class …a lot of interesting but non-audition related activities. These things are great to do and have their own value and place, but you have to do you own cost-benefit analysis to see if the on-campus trip is worthwhile. Especially for a school like CMU where the odds of admittance are so low – the cost of the trip may not be worth it.
I can say CMU regularly accepts people from the Unified auditions. D is friends with at least 2 people who auditioned at Unifieds and were accepted. And another from Unifieds that was priority wait listed. I do not think there is an advantage to auditioning on campus versus Unifieds as far as being accepted goes. Go where location and cost make the most sense for you.
I do think some schools pad their numbers to make admission seem more selective. (Sometimes if they attend a big “cattle call” type audition like SETC where all schools are in one room, they may include a person as auditioning for them when the student never actually applies to their school.) But I dont think CMU is one of them.
Really, the numbers for all of these programs are daunting no matter if it’s 500 applicants or 1000 or 8000. You are competing against a lot of people for few spots and your chances of getting in are not great. no matter how talented you are. CMU is a great school and those who are admitted should feel very lucky indeed whether they choose to attend or not.
I do think @connections makes a great point though. The best program for you may or may not be the one that has the lowest % of acceptance. And just because it is difficult to be admitted does not necessarily make it a great school for you. I would not put a lot of weight into the acceptance rate and rather look most closely at the factors that are important to you when choosing a school.
As far as numbers go, most of these schools are auditioning hundreds, and yes, some of them thousands, of applicants a year. Certainly if this is a concern to you and how it impacts the faculty time in the classroom, I would ask them how it effects their time on campus as part of my due diligence for that school. But I don’t think CMU is exaggerating their numbers. They don’t need to. Their reputation speaks for itself.
Michigan prescreens- right? Does anyone know how many submissions they get? Do they get 2000+? I wonder how much time it takes to watch those compared to watching a live audition
The numbers of auditions/prescreens are YUGE. The number of acceptances at many of these schools is the inverse of YUGE. It’s all too YUGE to contemplate. Pick the programs that fit your personal criteria - and a couple back-ups you would be OK with. Do the best you can. Then wait. And wait. And wait. . .
Haha @mom4bwayboy agree. And @vvnstar does a good breakdown in post 10. But my spidey sense still says that when a really small program says 2,000 - 3,500 auditions, they mean auditions, not individuals and if they don’t, I have no idea who is back at the ranch teaching. But best to let mom4bwayboy’s wise words above trump anything I have to say. You see what I did there?
D2 and I have been researching colleges for her (not for theatre). Here’s a text I sent D1, now a sophomore MT major:
"Looking at colleges for (D2) again… When I run into an Ivy League school with an acceptance rate of 10% or less, I’ve been making that little whistle noise, like, whewww! So few schools have that low acceptance number, and it seems totally unrealistic–like a lottery. We’d be foolish to have a list heavy with schools that have those odds. Then it hit me that this is what you faced in all your schools but 2–and got into!
Whewww!"
D2 will likely have just 1 school on her final list with a 10% or less chance of admittance, and we don’t have high hopes for it, but, if she likes the program enough, she can go for it. Most of her list will contain schools with well above about a 35% acceptance rate. That’s normal for people with solid/high stats and a decent hook, from what I gather. So different from the lists of most people auditioning for MT programs… Strange how perspective changes, and how I had “forgotten” this about MT programs while immersed in this new college search. (Not to take away anything from where non-MTers like D2 get into… I will be equally proud of my other kids, no matter where they end up, as long as they are using their gifts and abilities. And, of course, if they’re not MT majors, I don’t think they’ll apply to 15+ schools. At any rate, it seems to be getting crazier out there with admissions in general.)
I’ve never been one to parse acceptance odds of 10, 8, 6, or 2% or to think much about how many people are auditioning at programs (although I guess it’s a good idea to try to form some sort of list based on reach, match–which, in most MT lists, is actually just reach-but-slightly-better-odds or I-think-maybe-they-might-like-my-type, and safety–only non-audition, of course). They are all incredibly difficult, and you really do have to build a list based on what you personally want, not the name, IMO. So, I love @mom4bwayboy 's post (#25)! YUGELY crazy, YUGELY impressive to get into almost any program, YUGELY brave of these auditioners and the parents who support them!
^^^^ YES! Last paragraph.
@CTDramaMom, you have a number of likes but was this a serious post or a joke? Sorry to ask but honestly I’m confused as your post ends in
Don’t ever apply to a school you aren’t serious about and don’t ever desire to attend a school where teaching is not job one. You can indeed only control your own audition vs. others’ auditions but you can also vote with your feet when it comes to where you apply.
That actually brings up a question I was thinking about - do most of the people who apply to places like CMU, or Juilliard, or Harvard for that matter apply b/c they think it is the best place for them? Or b/c they are famous and they feel like they have to take their shot?
@Sammy8028 I think people who apply to these schools like them and are academically qualified and potentially artistically qualified.
Thanks @ClarinetDad16 ! It says 2,621 applicants for the CMU School Of Drama. That probably includes all majors in the SOD… just like Pace, whose director of admissions has stated they had over 2000 applicants last year for Pace School of Theatre, but he said that includes all majors including, Acting, Dance, and MT applicants.
Still ALOT
Well as the OP I will say I didn’t expect this response to my question lol. Thanks for the input. I really was just wondering as I think myself and my friend are trying to line up auditions in a very tight schedule & trying to determine if certain schools are , to be honest, worth the audition slot it is taking from a more realistic school. Not trying to be a Debbie downer but hedging your bets and all… Her child wants to audition @ CMU & apparently can afford to … Financially finding the school to be a fit and also a fit in their audition schedule. We are not in that financial fit category anyway so it’s off. But sure if you have the ability to squeeze it in and can do it I’m sure it is fun to go and try. We all buy a lottery ticket at some point!
I will say , and we all know this to be true, some kids have not looked into the curriculum or program at CMU or other well knowns like Univ of MI etc . They are gong strictly by reputation and name recognition. If you knew the kids I have run into ( & adults) who are SO focused on 5 schools … It’s sad in some cases because I know of several kids who only auditioned at well known schools and had not one acceptance & are scrambling to go somewhere for MT.
Education in choosing schools is key…
Well this has brought up another question. Has anyone ever added up how many bfa spots in musical theatre and drama there are if you total the numbers of acceptances for all schools? I am curious how many don’t get in anywhere or move over to a ba. If you look at it like that it might seem more probable .
As is evident by my participation on these boards - I did a TON of research while prepping my D for the audition process… but several other kids from her HS (non PA - but with a great Drama advisor) have auditioned for MT programs. All but one of them only auditioned for one program. They had selected the school that they wanted to attend, and then decided “I think I’ll see if I can major in MT there!” Of the ones I know - 2 were rejected and pursued other majors, 1 was rejected, and re auditioned for straight theater, and is now pursuing that major, and 1 other actually auditioned 2 places, and was admitted (He was also the only male in this scenario). I think all schools have auditioners that fall into this category of “I’ll see if I can make it”. @musicmama123 - So, when you are figuring out how many redirected students pursue other majors, how do you determine which of them had put serious preparation into their auditions - and which were planning to go to said school no matter what - and decided to make a go at an audition?
You can make yourself crazy trying to examine/interpret the YUGE numbers… your best bet is solid audition prep, and a well balanced list.
@musicmama123 - wasn’t there a thread that @EmsDad did that estimated those numbers? I thought I read something like that on this site. But to be honest, I’ve done do much reading here lately it makes my head spin.
I did quick-and-dirty estimates of the size of the MT audition pool in these posts:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19228858#Comment_19228858
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/17289152#Comment_17289152
The result was an estimated size of around 3,000 auditioners competing for around 840 slots at the 60 most popular programs with an overall acceptance rate of around 28 percent.
There are more than 180 audition-based MT programs, so, figuring an average of 12 slots per program results in around 2,000 slots available (2,160 to be exact) with “odds” increasing to around 67 percent if the “audition market” is truly “efficient” in economic terms (that is, every auditioner pursues acceptances at auditioned programs until they get one). However, my guess is that the “audition market” is not particularly efficient and many audition slots go unfilled at less popular programs and more than 33 percent of MT hopefuls end up with zero acceptances at audition-based programs.
There are, of course, many more slots available if you add in non-audition programs.
If CMU really auditions 2,500 students, and my estimates are in the ballpark, then the oft-heard phrase, “every one auditions for CMU” may be very close to the truth (my d was one of those who did not).
Yay for Ema dad. Love your analysis! When you evaluate those numbers it’s not impossible or totally improbable. It’s just casting a wide net which is what everyone says. But one mom just told me "if my daughter doesn’t get in one of her top choices , she will take a gap year. She doesn’t want to pay for a program she is not excited about… So there is that side of things. Food for thought.