Honestly–and I’ll probably get slammed here–but I think it’s kind of arrogant and/or ignorant to think one can only be excited by a top choice. I realize that @musicmama123’s friend said, “her top choices,” not “a top choice,” and those are completely different things. There are many excellent programs out there. When people say that they only want a top level program, I don’t think they comprehend the odds at the majority of programs. The ones talked about on CC have about 20% odds at the most, and those are outliers; most are 10% or under. They’re competitive, and high quality training is found in numerous places.
I personally know a couple people who only auditioned for the same few tippy top programs D’s year. They didn’t really research them; they didn’t know the differences between them; they didn’t stop and think about if the programs were right for them; they just wanted those schools and nothing else. After being shut out, one went into another major (so I wonder if she really passionately wanted MT to begin with and just thought she’d see what happened), and one isn’t attending college or any other theatre program at the moment (and is/was seriously despondent after not getting into “his” program). At the request of his mom, D and I tried to advise the latter, but he wouldn’t hear it. He was sure he was getting in one of those top programs, especially since he went to a selective pre-college summer camp and “they always get into one of their top programs, so there’s no way I won’t get into mine.” Sad. I would think he was being advised by the people at the camp to build a balanced list, but he wasn’t hearing it from anyone.
When D was auditioning, a few people (usually parents of younger students looking to pursue this someday) asked about D’s list and expressed shock that she wasn’t auditioning for one of the “top 3/Holy Grail.” They would try to reassure her that they thought she had the talent for it, as if the reason she wasn’t going for it was because she didn’t think she was good enough. D or I would explain that she researched a lot of schools and that she actually preferred to audition for others. It was almost comical for me to watch their reactions. I can understand in a way, though. There was one I would’ve liked her to audition for, but she was resolute, and that ended up (admittedly, after a bit of time) being fine with me; I was proud of her for knowing what she wanted and not being swayed by name. (Not that all those who audition for those 3 do so because they are swayed by the name… I’m sure the people here on CC, especially, research well!)
Anyway, that was a long answer to @Sammy8028’s question.
Just for fun (not trying to derail thread) I wonder what other schools would be on the “most commonly auditioned for” (horrible grammar - apologies) list. I have to assume NYU - as they have also reported numbers of 2000+. Actually 3000 is the number in my head for NYU- but I don’t have evidence to back it up in hand. Michigan? BOCO?
Some info can be found in this former thread- but I think application numbers are anecdotalhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1733121-mt-admit-rates-number-of-applicants-2015-class-size-2014-or-2013-number-of-offers-if-known-p2.html
@toowonderful: I recently went back through 5 years worth of “Final Decisions” threads and counted the number of auditions mentioned for each school:
CCM 75
Point Park 65
Pace 64
Carnegie Mellon 63
Ithaca 58
Penn State 57
Texas State 56
Ball State 53
Michigan 52
Rider 50
Baldwin Wallace 47
Otterbein 46
NYU Tisch MT 44
Boco 44
Elon 42
Emerson 42
Hartt 41
Syracuse 37
U Arts 34
Coastal Carolina 31
Roosevelt 31
Indiana 27
Shenandoah 25
Webster 24
Wright State 24
Montclair 23
Northern Colorado 23
Ohio Northern 23
OCU 22
Oklahoma 20
Florida State 19
Wagner 17
Miami 17
TCU 17
Northwestern 16*
Western Michigan 16
Millikin 15
Utah 14
James Madison 13
Viterbo 13
Marymount Manhattan 13
Cap 21 Malloy 11
LIU Post 10
I would not in any way claim that this list is definitive, there are lots of things that can bias these numbers. However, the “usual suspects” placed at or near the top, so I think the numbers are at least, to some extent, indicative.
Northwestern is not an audition-based MT program per se, but I threw it in anyway because of the amount of attention it gets on this forum
Also note that top applicants typically earn offers to multiple top programs, but can only enroll at one. So there always will be more admits than enrolls.
The size of the applicant pool for CMU is extraordinary. If each of those applicants had to audition on campus the total would be far lower. As would the number decrease significantly if students had to pass a pre-screen to audition. Plus how many in the “pool” would be weeded out because they are not academically qualified for admission?
So the question should be how big would the applicant pool be of academically qualified students that could pass a pre-screen?
@ClarinetDad16 - CMU Drama does not follow the same academic standards as the university as a whole. Not even close. This makes it different from say NYU or Michigan - where you do have to pass the academic bar as well (There may be wiggle for someone the school really wants- but you have to be in the ballpark) I imagine this has to do with the fact that CMU is very conservatory based- their students will take very very few classes outside their department. A student I know who graduated from CMU drama recently had test scores in the teens.
@EmsDad - thanks for that list- now that you post it, I remember it It’s an interesting snapshot of “us” as a community - but I wonder how well our do we represent the audition pool as a whole? Also interesting to me that my D only auditioned for 2 of the “most popular”.
Clearly, it’s not representative of the whole. Audition numbers indicate that CMU, CCM, NYU, BOCO (and idk, but I’d guess, MI), have the largest audition numbers; there’s no way that most of the schools sandwiched between them in the list above would fall in that order in the whole audition pool. Still, I agree that it’s an interesting snapshot of a this community, one that does their research pretty well!
What I find impressive is that @EmsDad continues to come up with these helpful and/or interesting lists and analyses! It must take a long time.
Unlike say music conservatories that have no specific academic of standardized test requirements, CMU is still looking for quality students with really good academic profiles. It is safe to say there are many in the “pool” who don’t meet CMU’s academic standards.
Don’t forget that the numbers quoted by CMU and NYU (and maybe others) include all auditioners for MT and acting. Not so for the numbers you hear from other programs.
I tend to agree with all of the above. I think individuals need to look at individual programs. Some lesser known programs might have the exact mix of classes you want. For example, I was looking at Catholic university. I know several kids that have gone there, for music and for other majors. They all love it! Love DC! Great programs, beautiful campus. But when I was looking up audition information, I realized the musical theater major is in the music department, and not in the theater department. There is no overlap, and my d loves acting as much as singing. She is leaning towards auditioning for acting programs where you take voice and dance. So I realized this was not a fit for her at this time. I think before you audition for everything , actually look at their programs! Emerson you probably have to take freshman math… She will audition but she would love to never see math again!
So actually looking at curriculam is important! And a lesser known college might be perfect. That is why I am sitting here on a beautiful summer day looking at college after college. If my d had it her way she would audition for every single one! Haha! I think 15 to 18 will be probably what we can handle, if that!
@ClarinetDad16 - I see they have many fine students. But I am saying that unlike some other programs - if they want you they can have you - no matter what your stats look like. But just looking at the ACT #s posted on your link…I think those stats, while good, would not get an applicant into another major at CMU (I had a student with a perfect ACT last year waitlisted for CS)
Just to clarify your footnote: “* Northwestern is not an audition-based MT program per se, but I threw it in anyway because of the amount of attention it gets on this forum”
Maybe this is what you mean, but the MT certificate is audition based–it’s just that you audition in the beginning of your Freshman or Sophomore year. What is not audition-based is your acceptance into NU’s School of Communications as a Theatre Major. My D was such a major, and didn’t audition for the MT cert because she’s not interested in MT. I don’t know if you included her in the stats btw, but certainly not everyone who goes to NU wants to get the MT cert, or if they do, not everyone is accepted.
@toowonderful - I understand. The Comparison should be between CMU and true conservatories for the MT kids. CMU has much higher academic standards for the MT kids than the conservatory.
@musicmama123 you don’t have to take math at Emerson if you score 550 or higher on the math portion of the SAT. I’m not sure what the equivalent is for the ACT or if that number will change with the new SAT.
Thanks! Her counselor said she doesn’t have to take the fourth year of math but I called many of the colleges to make sure.
All but Emerson said as long as she has has high school diploma it doesn’t matter. They said she may have to take a year. IF she gets in there, and IF she decides to go there then I hope you are right about the act score!
It’s an interesting snapshot of “us” as a community - but I wonder how well our do we represent the audition pool as a whole? Also interesting to me that my D only auditioned for 2 of the “most popular”.