CNN on College Debt and NYU

Colleges and Universities A-Z New York University
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<p>^ Being smart and having a high GPA does not matter in the real world, it only matters if you’re applying to MD/PhD/JD/MS programs. No one else cares; your first employer might and then they go by work experience and what you can contribute to their company. I think loans should be capped at $70k but even that’s pushing it. </p>

<p>@AJrover: I can’t tell you what to do with your life, but I will bluntly tell you $200k in loans is such a crazy thing to do, it should not be allowed. NYU takes naive kids with no common sense like yourself every year and then they end up screwed. You have very little understanding of how the job market works if you think college name matters to that extent, especially NYU. Going to an affordable college and getting relevant work experience and internships makes a much bigger difference in the long run. </p>

<p>Oh and newsflash - NYU also has 300 student classes, we have 600 student classes, we have 700 student classes - I’ve been in them, and most of my TA’s don’t speak English at all.</p>

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<p>I don’t get why making a bad decision is NYU’s fault or why NYU is being singled out. Our EFC is above the cost of NYU, so D would not receive financial aid from any institution she would have applied to.</p>

<p>We knew this going into the process and since we were aware of this, as parents, we told D that in order to attend a private school she would have to receive merit aid. We laln on financing the cost of her undergraduate education.</p>

<p>So her list included our more affordable SUNY and GW, American, Muhlenberg, Brandeis and NYU. NYU was included because they give out talent merit aid (which she received.) She got into all the other schools she applied to with merit aid offers from $15K to $22.5K / year.</p>

<p>She did not apply to any Ivies since I could not justify spending the money. She did get into Barnard (without aid, of course) and it was on our list as a back-up in case she did not get merit aid from other institutions since we knew she could commute and save money, if necessary.</p>

<p>The young man in the interview clearly did not have sound parental guidance or disregarded it. That is not NYU’s fault. Let’s face it, the burden to pay for education is left to the parent. That is how the whole system is structured and why the EFC is in existence. But in reality, many parents won’t pay their EFC or can’t because it is not a reasonable amount. So we can talk about how a system which assumes a parent will pay, but obviously can’t make them pay, is inherently flawed and unfair to student’s without financial need. And we can also talk about parent’s who are not involved in the process and let their children get into this mess (someone had to sign those loans!) But I don’t see how it is NYU’s fault. The same situation would have existed if he had attended other dream schools, too.</p>

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<p>Ok let’s get started…
@milkandsugar- My parent’s say they’d rather pay it off without me taking out loans. </p>

<p>@nyYankees2012 You’re right, no school is worth $200,000 or even $1 for that matter. The government should provide upper education free of charge. But seeing that healthcare narrowly passed the House, I doubt this will happen soon.
You’re wrong, Louis Vuitton Clothes are better crafted, use higher quality of materials, and have better craftsmanship (Stitching etc.) regardless this is irrelevant.</p>

<p>@stohare2010 Thank you. I’m obviously not going to NYU to drink and do drugs and party. I want to Double major or minor in something outside my major. I told my parents if I wanted to drink and do drugs I would just stay home and do nothing. </p>

<p>@missamericanpie Honestly, what other choice does anyone have though? EVERYONE is going to graduate with some sort of debt, it’s unavoidable.
Yes, I realize I could go to a community college and transfer, but those first two years I’d have a LOT of catching up to do ( refer to furlough Fridays) besides, no college in my state has the quality of the major of expertise that I am entering at NYU.</p>

<p>@alix2012 "NYU takes naive kids with no common sense like yourself every year and then they end up screwed. You have very little understanding of how the job market works if you think college name matters to that extent, especially NYU. " Thank you, I accept your rebuke; I didn’t know NYU granted degrees in omniscience. </p>

<p>@uskoolfish Exactly. I received hardly nothing from the other schools I was accepted to and it would have been the same anywhere else I would have applied. I knew what I was getting into when I filled out the application, Although Alix2012 might think otherwise,<br>
Honestly,l it’s not NYU’s fault, it’s the entire system of colleges charging outrageous amounts for a degree. I also blame scholarship programs that have their family income levels incredibly low, I couldn’t apply for the Gates Millennium Scholarship, or any others for that matter because my family’s income was too high. It is completely ridiculous that they have income caps as low as $30,000 ( Pell Grant). Most people that I’ve met who make $30,000 or less have to worry about getting the lights turned off, where they are going to stay, having enough money for lunch- trying to get well without seeing a doctor. Yet scholarship programs like Gates,Pell, UNCF, HSF, etc. want to help send them to college. College should not be their immediate need. Scholarships need to provide them with housing or food assistance or maybe even a job to get them on their feet.
It is the middle class who suffers. The rich can pay their way, and the poor can go for free, but no one thinks about the middle class. What if you make $30,001. Ineligible for a Pell Grant. You’re situation is no different than someone who makes a dollar less than you. The system is broken.</p>

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<p>@uskoolfish: Well the situation with Ryan on CNN isn’t really NYU’s fault. He CHOSE to take out that much knowing what he was getting into. However, it IS NYU’s fault that our financial aid sucks. Last year there were student protests over budget transparency - where does our money go? Instead of focusing on bettering education and financial aid, NYU deliberately chooses to expand. Classes gets larger and tuition gets higher and we get less bang for our buck. Sadly I know SO many students who either transferred out because they quickly realized it wasn’t worth debt, or they’re stuck here. Like your daughter, I attend NYU on a great scholarship but if it weren’t for that I’d have the intelligence to head elsewhere. I think this poster put it perfectly:

@AJrover: I’m afraid you’re confusing being “omniscient” with having common sense. The majority of adults will tell you $200k is a laughably ridiculous amount of loans for college. Anyway it is your choice to make and I sincerely hope you don’t end up like Ryan down the road. And no, the “entire system of colleges” isn’t “charging outrageous amounts for a degree.” There are thousands of reasonably priced collges in this country. You chose the college ranked #2 for Most Expensive and #1 for Worst Financial Aid. That was YOUR choice to make, but please don’t pretend you couldn’t go to any public school for way less.</p>

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<p>Here’s my plan:</p>

<p>For the government loans I’m taking out (Stafford and Perkins), my parents are going to pay those off in time, so I will not have to deal with those at all. Which is about $38,000. Of course they’re in my name, but my parents will be making the payments for me on those loans.</p>

<p>I will be covering my private student loans with whatever job I get out of college. This is about $60,000 after undergrad. </p>

<p>So yes, it LOOKS like I’ll be horribly drowning in debt with ~$100,000 in loans, but I have a plan. And my parents CAN contribute, they just did not get approved for the PLUS Loan because they have bad credit for some reason.</p>

<p>For me, I think its completely acceptable to take out these loans. I think I’m being smart about it. It’s planned out. Now, if someone were to be covering that much in loans by themself… I’d be scared, and I wish them luck :)</p>

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<p>Yes I agree with you. I could have gone to any public school for cheaper. And yes I agree that NYU shouldn’t be expanding at this time. I don’t want you or anyone to pretend that a Community College or Junior College will get you as far as an Ivy or NYU for that matter. I am tired of people saying that it’s more sensible to turn down Harvard( Generality) for a CC or JC. People will laugh if you believe those degrees are the same. Even if you pay less you’re basically wasting your money on something that won’t get you as far.</p>

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<p>And yet another NYU debt horror story: </p>

<p>[Your</a> Money - Another Debt Crisis Is Brewing, This One in Student Loans - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Another Debt Crisis Is Brewing, This One in Student Loans - The New York Times”>Another Debt Crisis Is Brewing, This One in Student Loans - The New York Times)</p>

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<p>@ajrover: There’s a huge difference between Harvard vs CC and NYU vs State U. You have the entire UC system, every State U in the country, plus Private U’s lower than NYU that would give you scholarships. But you turned all that down to take $200k in loans in the 2nd most expensive college in the USA. Once again, your choice to make and I wish you good luck. I’m not trying to be mean, I’m pointing it out because I’m a junior at NYU who has had to watch friends/classmates sadly leave for financial reasons and scholarships for transfers are nonexistent. </p>

<p>@jassy12 - stories like that scare me! Some of my friends who graduated last week are in that situation right now - thank god most NYU grads are at least getting jobs though.

[quote]
she borrowed about $40,000 from Citibank without thinking much about how she would pay it back. How could her mother have let her run up that debt, and why didn’t she try to make her daughter transfer to, say, the best school in the much cheaper state university system in New York? “All I could see was college, and a good college and how proud I was of her,” Cathryn said. “All we needed to do was get this education and get the good job. This is the thing that eats away at me, the na</p>

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<p>@jassy12</p>

<p>I think you should note that she majored in Religion and women studies from CAS. She basically took out a $100k loan to become a nun (ROFL). I think if she had graduated from Stern or Tisch, it would have been a little bit different.</p>

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<p>I think that the reality about undergraduate education that few people seem to get is that the value of a bachelors degree has become very diluted. Think about it. A higher and higher percentage of high school seniors go to college every year at the very same time that tuition continues rise way above the level of inflation. The real ‘value’ of the bachelors degree continues to go down as the number of graduates with a bachelors degree rises, and yet tuition continues to go up as if the ‘value’ of the degree has somehow increased and not the other way around. </p>

<p>To pay $56,000 now (!) a year to go to NYU in the 2010/2011 school year, and almost certainly more every single year for the next four years, is absolutely ridiculous. I wouldn’t be surprised in the total cost per year reached $60,000 by your senior year if you started in the fall. Even if you major in the most lucrative fields (business, engineering, etc.), there is little chance that a slightly above average salary of $60,000 would allow you to comfortably pay off six figures in debt. </p>

<p>People who get caught up in the brand and ‘prestige’ of a university are fooling themselves if they think paying $200,000 + interest is a smart investment. Honestly, the only universities that should be able to get away with charging that much are perhaps Harvard, Yale, MIT, Princeton, Caltech, and Stanford, and even then it is pushing it. At least every one of these schools provides generous financial aid to 100% of students who need it. </p>

<p>My suggestion? Save your money for grad school. Go to an inexpensive state school, do very well, and then use your savings to apply for the top Masters, PhD, or professional programs. You will have had four years to figure out what you really want to do with your life so that you can find an advanced degree that will be much more career-focused and much more desirable to employers than any undergraduate degree. Graduate degrees in high demand fields, like engineering, the sciences, or almost any quantitative field, are almost certainly going to be a much better dollar for dollar investment than any bachelors degree. And if you can get into a funded PhD program (Maybe even at NYU!), even better.</p>

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<p>Seriously, I am TIRED of people pulling out the “Stern and Tisch are the ONLY REASONS THAT NYU IS WORTH IT!!!” card. Steinhardt and CAS churn out just as many successful graduates. All of my friends in Steinhardt Media were hired straight after graduation, at video game firms and public relations firms all over the NYC area. </p>

<p>And Alix is right, if you are a transfer and believe that there will be scholarships for you, you are JOKING. Many schools offers practically no aid to transfer students. There ARE schools who have generous packages, like Vandy and Cornell, but certainly not NYU.</p>

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<p>Honestly. I have no regrets taking out about $40,000 in student loans to go to NYU. Being a Journalism major, I don’t really have any post graduate MA plans, so I know I am making a huge investment with my undergraduate degree. And having NYU on my resume has opened doors for me in regards to editorial internships over the last two years. When I graduate from NYU next year, I’ll have no regrets about my degree because I know how competitive the journalism field is, and NYU has given me some great opportunities that I know my state university wouldn’t have. Some of my professors have worked for The New York Times, Forbes and Harper’s Bazaar. Journalism - like other fields - is all about networking and NYU is a great place to network and make lasting business relationships. One day I would like to get my masters - I really like the Columbia dual MS in Journalism and Engineering/Computer Science - but I know I won’t go into a program right after graduating NYU becasue I do want to focus on paying off my debts first. </p>

<p>However, if you’re going into a degree that will need an MA/MS, then you should really think before taking out 100,000 + in student loans. Because most masters programs offer little to no financial aid.</p>

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<p>NYU Journalism Grad on Food Stamps:</p>

<p>[In</a> School, in Debt and Asking for Help - City Room Blog - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/19/in-school-in-debt-and-asking-for-help/]In”>In School, in Debt and Asking for Help - The New York Times)</p>

<p>I beginning to see a pattern here…</p>

<p>Even if you think it is ‘worth it’ to go to NYU at the end of the day, I don’t see how you can just ignore the plight of your fellow NYU students. Obviously this is not an isolated case. Congrats on not suffering under mounds of debt, but when only 70% of students receive some sort of financial aid who need it (and still probably not nearly enough of it), it would be difficult for me to feel like NYU really has its students in its best interest.</p>

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<p>I think that if NYU told families, ‘listen, we don’t think that you guys have the money to go to our school, so we really want you to be sure before you accept,’ that it would be worse than if they said nothing at all. Personally, I think JSex should stop spending money on more global campuses and NYC expansion and focus on increasing financial aid and NYU scholarships. I was very fortunate to receive a large scholarship from NYU but I know that’s a rarity. But NYU was the only university I really wanted to go to, and I didn’t want to give up on a dream. I love that NYU is such a diverse campus, and I would hate to see it become a university solely for rich kids. </p>

<p>But it’s also up to the individual. If you do decide that NYU is worth the investment (i did) then you better work hard, make connections, get internships and get a job. These are the factors that make you get ahead, not having NYU on your resume. Some of my friends have never held jobs or had an internship in their college career, and that is the mistake. You have to work hard if you invest so much into NYU. There are so many opportunities available to you while you are still a student - don’t wait until after graduation to realize you don’t know what to do. Utilize NYC’s resources. </p>

<p>I also think that if you do take out student loans, don’t pretend like they don’t exist until after you graduate. Start planning it out now. Make those calls and see how much your monthly payments will be to be prepared. If you wait until after you graduate to figure this out, it might be too late. It’s better to talk to someone now about it. Just don’t pretend that it’s not there.</p>

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<p>

I completely disagree - how is it bad to ask people to consider the financial ramifications of their actions? I got accepted into better colleges that gave me 0 scholarships and some loans, and I turned them down to go to NYU on a nice scholarship. I honestly have no sympathy for people like Ryan on CNN who got full scholarships to other colleges and took out $275k in loans to attend the 2nd most overpriced university in the country. That’s irrational beyond belief. </p>

<p>I agree with the rest of your post - JSex is too busy expanding and plotting and making NYU a worse place. There is a reason NYU has a reputation for being for spoiled rich kids and having sucky financial aid. The stereotype I hear most often is, “Kids who have the money for Columbia but not the brains to get in.” Whenever I tell people I go to NYU they either comment on how expensive it is, or assume that I’m rich.</p>

<p>I agree 100% with Jassy12 - even though I attend on a nice scholarship and will graduate with 0 debt and a science degree, I can’t ignore the plight of my classmates and friends who aren’t getting the aid they need, or have WAY too much debt and it’s piling on. This university doesn’t have its students in its best interests, all they care about is $$$$$$$$.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Bad for who? NYU gets the money anyway, even if it is from a loan that will never really be paid back.</p>

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<p>Actually, I found this article awhile back:</p>

<p>[NYU</a> Calling Poor Students To Remind Them How Expensive It Is - Gothamist](<a href=“http://gothamist.com/2009/04/30/nyu_calling_poor_students_to_remind.php]NYU”>NYU Calling Poor Students To Remind Them How Expensive It Is - Gothamist)</p>

<p>Allegedly, the NYU Financial Aid office called a bunch of low income students last year, mostly first generation college students, to remind them how expensive NYU was so they could think over their decision to attend the school. </p>

<p>So NYU does seem to realize that it is out of reach for a lot of students, but instead of allocating more aid for those with serious financial need, they simply choose to remind these applicants that it is going to be very difficult for them to pay? What an awesome public service on their part. Seriously?</p>

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<p>Jassy12: This is from the comments section after the article you linked to above. It explains NYU’s reasons for calling these students:</p>

<hr>

<p>This has been a wildly mischaracterized story.</p>

<p>NYU’s admissions are need-blind, meaning we do not consider a candidate’s financial resources in making an offer; however, NYU is not among that relatively small number of U.S. colleges and universities that are able to meet full need (meaning the gap between what the federal formulas say should be the family contribution and what is available in the form of financial aid). It is from these two simple truths that our effort evolved.</p>

<p>If NYU were not need-blind, there would have been no reason for us to make calls to students whose need was not fully met by financial aid: we would simply compose a class where we could be more sure of everyone’s finances. Nor would there have been a reason to make the calls if NYU could meet full need (important note here: NYU’s endowment, on a per student basis, is about 1/30 of a Harvard, Yale, or Princeton (and that’s not a typo)).</p>

<p>Here’s what NYU’s effort is all about: straightforward consumer information. Financial aid is complex, and all NYU is trying to do is make sure families know what they’re getting into and are fully aware. We called families of first generation college students because financial aid is likely to be more complex-seeming for those families who have no prior experience with it. We called those with great need because they are most likely to face the greatest challenges in this economic environment. Our intention was simply to be more transparent; we would have thought that would be worthy of praise, not criticism.</p>

<p>Moreover, we know that economics is a key reason that students don’t finish school. NYU has one of the highest percentages of Pell-eligible students among top research universities (that is, the neediest students; this is something the reporting has regrettably not noted…); we simply want the graduating class to be just as economically diverse as the entering class.</p>

<p>We wouldn’t hesitate to talk candidly with students if we thought there were academic issues that might prevent them from graduating; why wouldn’t we be as forthright about financial issues?</p>

<p>Lastly, it should be understood that this effort is not about income level, it is about need. A family with a relatively high income level may have circumstances that create great need. And in today’s economy, they may be among the most vulnerable.</p>

<p>Bottom line: we have these conversations precisely because we want these students here from the start of their pursuit of their degree to the end, and we have handled these conversations thoughtfully and sensitively because we are respectful of families’ decisions about their own finances.</p>

<p>– John Beckman, NYU Public Affairs</p>

<hr>

<p>Sounds pretty reasonable/logical to me.
Given that you are a recent graduate of the University of Washington-Seattle considering taking on significant loans for a Masters (I checked your previous posts), I’m curious what your beef with NYU is.</p>

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<p>Wow…creepy but ok. </p>

<p>My only beef is the ridiculous rising costs of an undergraduate education these days. There is no reason why anyone should pay $200,000 for an undergraduate education when the value of a Bachelors degree is going down the tube. Perhaps for a Harvard or Yale, yes (though 100% of financial need is met), but when you are talking about NYU, a supposedly ‘prestigious’ private school with 20% more students enrolled there than my state school, I don’t see how studying any discipline there (yes, even business) is worth that much money. Sure, admissions might be need blind, but that doesn’t mean everyone gets the financial aid they actually need to attend. The College Board page on NYU shows that only 70% of those who ask for financial aid actually receive it. And even if you get financial aid, you might only get a small amount of grants/scholarships and low interest loans for everything else. Well, a loan is still a loan you need to pay back. </p>

<p>Yes, you pointed out that I went to a top public school for my undergrad and now am going to pricey grad school. My undergraduate education cost a whopping $28,000 for four years. Now I am going to the #2 engineering school in the country for $40,000 for one year. I was smart enough to save lots of money going to a great undergraduate school on the cheap because I knew that I wanted to go to grad school, where I knew that I would find many many more opportunities for gainful employment than with my undergraduate degree alone. I worked hard, saved lots of money, and now will have amazing opportunities to further my career at a much more ‘elite’ school than I am going to now. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, I will have spent $68,000 in tuition for 4 years at a top public school and 1 year at an elite private school in engineering. I will graduate with a Masters with extremely manageable debt. That is a far cry from the $200,000 + interest many NYU undergrads spend getting degrees that offer little to no earning potential. </p>

<p>For most students, getting a good job these days requires more than simply a Bachelors degree in any major. As more and more students attain Bachelors degrees, more often than not the only way to differentiate yourself is with a high-demand, specialized graduate degree. No employer is going to care where you went to undergrad if you have an MBA from Harvard or Yale or another top school. So why spend such an exorbitant amount for that BA or BS when you could save it for a graduate degree that will actually help move your career?</p>

<p>Even if I chose not to go to grad school, I could breathe a sigh of relief knowing that I am graduating with savings and not mounds of debt. There’d be no pressure to find the highest paying job I could get (that I may or may not like) so that I could start paying off my debt as quickly as possible. Instead, I’d have the financial freedom to find the right job that I’d actually enjoy doing. That, in of itself, is priceless.</p>

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<p>NYU should be a shamed and be embarrassed for this. It’s goal should be to decrease student debt and meet their need rather than spend all their endowment developing new campuses and spending their money elsewhere.</p>