Saw the author on Real Time with B. Maher and was intrigued. Got the book from local library and wondering what are other folks thoughts on the subject?
The Coddling of the American Mind: How good intentions and bad ideas are setting up a generationfor failure.
Lukinoff and Haidt
I am a big fan of Jonathan Haidt’s thinking. Especially in the social sciences and humanities, universities today - in their embrace of “victimhood culture” - are doing a huge disservice to both the students as well as the general culture of the US.
Before you get into the book, may I suggest an excellent short video excerpt from one of Haidt’s lectures that outlines his basic argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H20jwYq8WI
Haidt has also started Heterodox Academy, also well worth perusing: https://heterodoxacademy.org/
@SatchelSF : Enjoyed both videos. Thank you for posting the links.
Wow! Thanks for the link @SatchelSF ! IMO, this is completely accurate. Dare I post it on that other thread? Perhaps best to let sleeping dogs lie for now…
I just threw up in my mouth a bit. This is so sad. True, but sad.
I’m not intending this thread to be a venue for beating up on the younger generation and labeling them “snowflakes”, rather I was hoping for some discussion about the authors key points.
I’d also add I haven’t read yet where either author addresses the new parallel cult of victimhood of the white, heterosexual, male? I’d say this is more prevalent in the general culture but the claim also gets thrown around in college campuses today.
The conditions which are argued to have formed the cult on college campuses seem different in the general American culture as there is no overprotective parenting involved in this cult.
I don’t know, I watched the videos and didn’t feel like there were any particularly new ideas. Seems like my parents and grandparents complained about the same issues “these kids today blah blah blah…we trudged 10 miles in the snow to and from school uphill both ways, had an onion for lunch and were grateful for it, I was beaten up repeatedly because I took harmonica lessons and it made me stronger.”
The way these students think now, is not necessarily the way they will think 20 years or even 5 years from now. Agree or disagree with them, this is probably the best time of their lives to “try on” different ideals and standards, to test what they already believe and expand their worldview. I think what Mr. Haidt has to say is really a tempest in a teapot but his ideas are worth consideration. Ultimately the students will make their way in the world, indeed they will make the world to their liking just as we tried to. Hopefully they’ll fix some things that are wrong, screw some things up further, make their own mistakes and complain about their own children someday. Change is inevitable if scary, growth and progress are hard but necessary to advance the human race. We can complain, adapt, fight, get out of the way, or watch them and be proud or chagrined that this is what we created. They’ll work it out. I’m much more concerned about the decline of the world insect population (now there’s a sentence I didn’t think I’d ever write).
This is satire, right?
Check out these two pieces, just last week, at Dickinson and Yale (these really should be read in their entirety, despite their inanity):
https://thedickinsonian.com/opinion/2019/02/07/should-white-boys-still-be-allowed-to-talk/
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2019/02/07/davis-marks-evil-is-banal/
That second piece occasioned a lucid response in conservative media:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/softcore-stalinism-kompromat-isis-davis-marks-yale/
Hard to imagine that pieces like this could be written about anything other than white males. If I am wrong, please post recent college pieces criticizing any other demographic - I try to be open-minded about my own biases.
I can’t see how this thread will last long…
^ And that is the great irony. Minds must be coddled.
I 100% do not think this is just about young people. It’s everyone. Everyone is morally outraged by everything.
@SatchelSF , both of those articles…holy heck. I have to say though that I will never agree that white males are victims, @tonymom , and it’s unlikely they will ever be victims in our lifetime. Once you post something here, you can’t control how people will respond. You opened a can of worms that probably shouldn’t be opened on CC. I agree with @intparent that it won’t last long, so fear not.
I really miss the ISN book “Selecting The Right College”. It offered a thorough analysis of many elite colleges & universities from a conservative point of view.
Reading a conservative or liberal book, watching a conservative or liberal video or attending a lecture given by one with a particular point of view doesn’t necessarily signify agreement, but it does show a willingness to keep an open mind & to learn.
MODERATOR’S NOTE: Please stop discussion of the “parallel” topic.
I have not read the Coddling book by Haidt, although I’ve read two other books written by him.
I’ve listened to Haidt interviewed re: Coddling, and each interview has given me a lot to think about.
No I don’t think white males are victims as a group. My point is that if the authors are suggesting certain groups on college campuses are embracing “victimhood” that attention should be paid to other victimhood narratives that are being floated in the general population…
From what my son reports there is plenty of healthy pushback and discussions on his campus. I’m not convinced yet by the book that this is some sort of epidemic…
Boy, if white men are victims, just take a look at the US Senate, the CEO’s of the Fortune 500, the boards of virtually every major corporation in the country, etc. Would that we were ALL such victims!
The notion that paying attention to the under-served/not heard somehow is a dig against white men- who still rule the world- is hilarious to me.
As a family of immigrants, my parents’ were of the sticks and stones school, tempered with, but stand up to any physical bullying or real harassment (so I guess there was some lingering “honor culture”). Besides developing a thicker skin and a quicker wit for smart comebacks, I actually think you develop more empathy because you have to internalize any hurt. It’s a lot easier to seek third party sympathy/action to address any perceived slight, whether minor, large, intentional, unintentional vs trying to resolve the conflict yourself, which requires an analysis and then a decision as to whether if in fact there is a fight to fight and if it is even worth it.
BK, I don’t think systemic power imbalances respond to individuals sticking up for themselves. It’s nice to have a thick skin- but if you are the highest performer on your team at work and are told “You deserve the promotion but we are giving it to Joe-Slacksalot because he has a wife and kids to support and you are single so don’t need more money” it’s bizarre to tell someone to develop a quick wit.
I read this book last summer so my memory may not exactly be the freshest, but I seem to recall even the authors conceding that what they are writing about does not happen at all colleges; that some colleges have it worse than others, but that it is “spreading.” They use plenty of anecdotes, some of which have been discussed here before (like the Yale Halloween email) and some I had not heard of before reading (the situations at Evergreen and Claremont McKenna).
It is an interesting, though at times very repetitive read that at times did make me grateful I am well past my college years. I was in college during the first wave of “PC culture”, and while transgressions and mistakes and bad behaviors were definitely pointed out and discussed, it was all in a relatively calm manner and people listened to each other. These stories and videos that come out now with students screaming, cursing, making demands,yelling over each other, telling professors and deans to shut up–I don’t get it but I guess it works, because said professors and deans have lost their jobs to the angry mobs.