One point that a few people have implied, but no one I think has made explicitly:
Human beings, especially 18-year-old human beings, are really good at adapting to different living situations. Everyone feels uncomfortable or uncertain the first time they confront something new and unexpected, and it takes a bit to adapt, but adapt they do. I never shared a bedroom, growing up, and I would go to camp and there would be 12-14 kids in one big room. With bunk beds. And an outhouse. Ugh. That took some getting used to! But getting used to it happened.
It is a constant on CC that students or parents view one or another criterion for bathroom design as an absolute line in the sand driving dorm and college choices. I would argue that, absent some type of clinical Aspergerâs-type disorder, nothing in the normal spectrum of college dorm bathroom design â or room configuration, or gender rules â is likely to affect a studentâs experience for more than a few weeks. The OPâs daughter is projecting from two weeks of summer camp what she will feel 2-6 years hence, and I think she is probably wrong about that. If her summer camp had been 4 weeks, she might very well not care about dorm and bathroom configuration at all.
âI lived on campus for 3 years and despised those showers the whole time, especially since the hooks for towels/robes were NOT within reach of the shower in any of the ones I saw. I usually showered in the middle of the day when no one was around.â
Having flimsy curtain dividers and no privacy was my experience in college too. And part of the reason I did not want to be in the dorms for more than a year. So, for the bathrooms that are not secured and where they are either by design or by necessity mixed gender use, how do we ensure our girls safety? I recognize that most kids are good and that we need to have a certain amount of faith in human nature. But it seems like it would be irresponsible to not acknowledge the very real issue of rape on college campuses.
âHuman beings, especially 18-year-old human beings, are really good at adapting to different living situations. Everyone feels uncomfortable or uncertain the first time they confront something new and unexpected, and it takes a bit to adapt, but adapt they do.â
That is a really good point and one worth making clearly. There are many times when we think something will be a problem and then we get used to the new environment and it becomes normal. However there are also things that are parts of our personality. For instance, my daughter needs a lot more sleep than her friends seem to need and she is a go to bed early and get up early kind of person. And she has been like this since she was a wee one. Since this is something she knows about herself it seems like trying to adapt to a late night schedule would be counter productive. Likewise there are plenty of people that are more private with their bodies. I am almost 45 years old, have lived in four different countries in all kinds of âsharedâ living situations and I have never ever gotten comfortable with other people in my bathing/bathroom area. To me it is a private and personal ritual and I want to be able to relax and know I will not have anyone walking in. In college I had to, by necessity, get âusedâ to having all kids of people coming in and out, of both genders, but I never was able to be comfortable in that environment. I wonder if it is worth thinking about the kids who will feel unwelcome and uncomfortable because of these very âopenâ bathrooms.
I really think itâs more of a privacy issue than a safety issue. Are single-sex bathrooms locked in most dorms? I donât think they were in Dâs dorm. Since assaults are often associated with substance abuse, I think a girlâs chance of been assaulted are likely higher at parties taking place in single-sex residences than they would be in a co-ed dorm bathroom.
I really believe that this entire topic is definitely generational.Moving my third child into college this weekend twice funny gender neutral bathroom situations occurred to my wife and I.We went into the restroom together in a 3-4 stall bathroom and made comments about the oddity of the situation, As I finished washing my hands I waited for my wife as two young girls walked in, maybe 7 and 10 years old. I could not run out fast enough. The next day on my sons hall my wife opened the hall bathroom and she jumped right back out as a college sophmore was shaving by the sink in a small towel. Our children have no issues at all but just different for us. The showers on that hall have a small shower like curtain in front of each but they all are side by side.
As I said very generational lol. Used to be dorms by gender, my recent graduate lived in a suite with 3 girls and two guys his junior year. None dated all just close friends on the same swim team.
âHuman beings, especially 18-year-old human beings, are really good at adapting to different living situationsâ. Maybe. Many of our hs girls are wearing bathing suits under their sports clothes to shower in after practice (our hs locker room showers donât have much privacy). Some of those girls are 18. So, you seem to be saying a magic transformation occurs when they leave for college?
Itâs also familiarity. Kids at school become close to one another. Itâs one thing to walk into a bathroom and see a boy youâve never met before brushing his teeth wearing just a towel. Itâs another thing when itâs Sam, your friend from down the hall who youâve seen in all sorts of situations over the past three months.
In addition to generational differences and familiarity, some people are just more comfortable (or not!) depending on how they are raised. Weâre not the most modest household. My kids feel pretty comfortable in their own skins and arenât concerned about nudity much, their own or other peopleâs. In Europe, by contrast to the USA, there is a lot more openness about such things with people growing up around saunas and such. If you are a dancer, youâre used to a lot of hanging out in dressing rooms with little to no clothing on. If you live in a family/friend group where people openly breastfeed, naked breasts are no big deal. Weâre all shaped by our own experiences.
Seeing a guy or gal in a towel seems like a non issue to me when you think how little people wear to the beach. :-??
@Mathyone,
High school showers are often an open bank of nozzles where the kids are in full view of each other. Iâve never seen a college bathroom that fits that design. They may be out there but I have a hard time believing theyâre common. Having roommates tends to make kids a bit less concerned about modesty as well. Most get comfortable changing in front of their roommates.
I have to say that it seems anti feminist or anti women to expect that all girls should try to fit into this very specific shower type or bathroom environment. What about girls who have been molested or physically abused in some way? Having grown up with a mom who was molested as a child and knowing how it impacted her I feel we should be cognizant of these women very real need for privacy and feeling safe. Here is something written by the victim of abuse:
âDonât they know that one out of every four little girls will be sexually abused during childhood, and thatâs without giving predators free access to them while they shower? Donât they know that, for women who have experienced sexual trauma, finding the courage to use a locker room at all is a freaking badge of honor? That many of these women view life through a kaleidoscope of shame and suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, dissociation, poor body image, eating disorders, drug and alcohol abuse, difficulty with intimacy, and worse?â
I realize that lots of people are fine with the âopenâ bathroom experience and I respect that. I am just positing that it would be good to think about how some girls are different and we maybe should consider that perspective tooâŠ
"So, for the bathrooms that are not secured and where they are either by design or by necessity mixed gender use, how do we ensure our girls safety? "
I think itâs less about safety than privacy. I do also agree kids will get used to it fairly quickly.
I think itâs interesting, though, that I could see, say, a 55 yo father visiting his daughter to feel a little uneasy using the bathroom down the hall (designated as mixed gender) and doing his business right next to her 18 yo girlfriends. (Again, in the ârow of stallsâ setup, not the ones where itâs like a hall bath shared by siblings and you wait your turn.)
Hence why in the experiences shared here, the floor voted on the issue, no? Any such affected individual can make their opinion known then. And if it doesnât turn out the way they want, they could use another bathroom â or, if all of the bathrooms were gender-neutral, ask housing about accommodations.
OP- giving predators free access while they are in the shower??? I have never heard of cases of rape on college campuses while the girls are taking a shower in a coed bathroom⊠I think you may be combining fears here that arenât actualitiesâŠ
rape culture may be alive on campuses but Ive never heard of it in the coed bathroom⊠its at the parties and hanging in each others dorm rooms âŠ
IMO its anti-feminist to suggest that girls are too fragile to be able to use a gender neutral bathroom without a great act of courageâŠ
I have found that girls that have been molested are not very good advocates for themselves. It is actually very sad. They often just suffer silently and feel embarrassed for being different.
âHence why in the experiences shared here, the floor voted on the issue, no? Any such affected individual can make their opinion known then. And if it doesnât turn out the way they want, they could use another bathroom â or, if all of the bathrooms were gender-neutral, ask housing about accommodations.â
No need to be embarrassed as mentioned in the post #195. All schools I am aware of take an anonymous ballot. If even ONE resident wants gender specific bathrooms, that is what happens. Itâs not a majority rules thing.
Well, the sad truth is that as coed dorms have become the norm and studies have been done about the impact on all of the students, but especially the girls, it has been shown there is more binge drinking, more promiscuity and that leads to a not beneficial environment for safety let alone learning. But what I have learned from this thread is that the dorms that are single sex dorms are now just the same, in practical terms, as the coed ones. I really appreciate all the information people have shared here. It has been a major education for me.
In case you are interested:
âA new study finds university students in coed housing are 2.5 times more likely to binge drink every week. And no surprise, theyâre also likely to have more sexual partners, the study found. Also, pornography use was higher among students in coed dorms.â http://www.livescience.com/5862-surprise-coed-dorms-fuel-sex-drinking.html
But you insinuated that it was because they share gender neutral bathroomsâŠwhich I think is misleading. I donât think you have shown or there are any studies to suggest promiscuity or pornography as the outcome from gender neutral bathrooms.
I would offer you the explanation that it might be the overall culture change that has occurred since hookup and a faster paced party culture became the norm⊠leading to this outcome you post.
My gay son knows and has partied with many girls who enjoy drinking and sex and IMO they do have the ability to be able to choose for themselves any lifestyle they want⊠that is the principle of feminism.
@runswimyoga
âIMO its anti-feminist to suggest that girls are too fragile to be able to use a gender neutral bathroom without a great act of courageâŠâ
I am sorry you thought I was implying that women were fragile. Not how I feel, or what I believe at all. But I do think that we are all different and some of us need more help/care. This goes for boys and girls. And part of us all being different is that some have been molested and need a different kind of consideration. And this is not an unusual occurrence in our current society.
My kids feel pretty comfortable in their own skins and arenât concerned about nudity much, their own or other peopleâs. In Europe, by contrast to the USA, there is a lot more openness about such things with people growing up around saunas and such. If you are a dancer, youâre used to a lot of hanging out in dressing rooms with little to no clothing on. If you live in a family/friend group where people openly breastfeed, naked breasts are no big deal. Weâre all shaped by our own experiences.