D21 has narrowed it down to 4. She intends to double major in English/Neuroscience. We have $250K budget for her. Any difference she will need to take loans. Estimated 4 year cost provided for each:
Colgate ($270K)
Union ($192K)
Holy Cross ($221K)
W&L ($257K)
She is very much focused on academic rigor and strength of alum network. Advice would be greatly appreciated. Visiting Colgate tomorrow, Union Tuesday and HC on Friday.
She’s feeling the pressure of May 1st coming on fast!
Does your daughter intend to go to graduate school ?
If yes, then have you considered any other schools that offer a lower COA ?
Yes, she intends to go to grad school.
Other options with COA include Providence College Honors ($200K), Fairfield U Honors ($182K), Stonehill College Honors ($151K), Richmond ($286K) and Bucknell ($271K).
Thanks for your thoughts.
I have been really impressed by Union. I would ask whether the other schools are worth $x more.
Having money from grad school (or being able to afford a job that pays less but is a better provider of skills) is a real boon.
Union has dedicated profs, good proximity to internships and an academic calendar that facilitates them, and a strong alumni network.
I would cross Colgate off as it requires $20,000 in loans, and she has other good options.
I would ask her if she really LOVES W&L – it’s a school that generates a strong reaction (really like or really dislike). If she really loves it, it ticks the rigor and alumni network boxes, and would be worth the $7,000 in loans in my opinion. But if she’s lukewarm, it does seem to be a bit of an outlier vs the northeastern schools, so you could eliminate it. [Disclosure my son’s going to W&L].
I think a lot depends on how much emphasis she places on neuroscience. If that is the major emphasis of the 2 areas of interest, I would look most closely at Union and Washington & Lee first as the 2 most developed programs in this area. They both have strengths to recommend them, so ask questions when you visit and see which one you’re more impressed with.
If English is the stronger interest, all of these schools are strong and all have good neuroscience programs to pair with English, so I’d focus more on which school she feels better about after the visits.
All have different settings and locations. At $29K cheaper than the next closest option, Union seems like a bargain, but you have to like the location - as you do with any of them.
An interesting small detail in comparing these colleges is that the male:female ratio at Colgate and Holy Cross is heavily female (45:55), even at Washington & Lee (50:50), and slightly more males at Union (51:49). An article a few years ago presented evidence that paradoxically women college students are treated better and are safer on campuses which are more male than female.
Just the fun fact for today.
English is definitely the primary focus however the school must have a viable Neuroscience program. We are from just north of Boston so we have the most familiarity with HC which I would call the current front runner. Union is a close second given the COA, strength of Neuro program, and likelihood she could run D3 XC which isn’t an option at either HC or Colgate. Looking forward to our Union visit on Tuesday however lots have folks have told us that the area has lots to be desired.
All 4 of your finalists have viable neuroscience programs. Union’s is 20 years old in what is a relatively young field. Being multidisciplinary, students are taking courses in different departments. Ten years ago Union obtained a grant to build a “Center for Neuroscience”, which brought together faculty from disparate locations on campus as well as providing modern lab spaces. The goal was to provide greater integration, which seems like a plus to me in an interdisciplinary field.
Schenectady is an old manufacturing town like Worcester. We all know what happens to places like that once they’ve lost the vitality that once energized them. However, many of them are bouncing back. I’ve been to the Union campus, and I like it. I also like the greater Albany area in general. Not everyone does, so see for yourself.
Best of luck with your visits this week. I too live in New England and we don’t hear much about Union here because we’re surrounded by so many outstanding liberal arts colleges. But Union is a great school with more to offer in some ways than other schools like it. Your daughter had 4 wonderful choices and really can’t go wrong with any of them.
With regard to Schenectady specifically, it was built along the Mohawk River, which formed a major portion of the Erie Canal, an oft overlooked gem in Upstate NY. Renting a canal boat and cruising for a few days or a few weeks through history can be a great vacation. I’ve done it. The old tow path along the canal has been developed for scenic walks along the canal.
While you’re in Schenectady, check out the Mohawk-Hudson Bike-Hike Trail, a 97 mile trail which passes through town. For a girl who likes to run outdoors, she could run all day on this shared use trail.
Another major resource for folks in Schenectady - including students at Union - is its relatively easy access to the Adirondack Park, which is better than any national park IMO and is the size of the state of Massachusetts. For anyone who loves the outdoors, there is every kind of outdoor recreation imaginable here.
Union was def trending towards the top of the list until the Dir of Admissions said the other night (virtual admitted students event) that the typical admitted student had a “B” average. That statement has brought into question the rigor of academics in D21’s mind.
Hopefully we can clear this up when we visit on on Tuesday. I agree that having $60K left in the tank for Grad school would be awesome. I’m not sure that most 18 yr olds, including D21, have a real appreciation for that!
You may want to inquire about the rigor of the neuroscience classes. I know that the kids from DS’ school who went to Union were very capable and diligent students. I also know it is less selective than some others! This may be an area where some self-selection, in terms of class choices, plays out and/or where the kid who had the B average because he wasn’t a well-rounded student (in terms of achievement) does really well when studying what interests them.
Tough to ferret out…
For a statistical look at this, Union recently enrolled 58% of its entering class from students who graduated in the top 10% their high school classes (to the extent that information is available). For perspective, this compares closely to the figure for Holy Cross, 61%.
It sounds like he was repeating what’s on their website:
“In 2019 the average high school GPA for incoming Union College freshmen was 3.5, and over 27% of incoming students had average GPAs of 3.75 and above. These results suggest that most successful applicants to Union College have high B grades.”
This reads to me like something the marketing people wrote for recruiting purposes, hoping not to scare prospective recruits away.
Comparing it to Holy Cross, HC doesn’t report an average GPA for admitted students, but both schools do post a HS GPA scatter gram. Honestly, I couldn’t tell the two apart. The 2 student bodies look similar to me.
Let’s look more closely. A = 4.0, B = 3.0. So what’s 3.5? High B or low A? It’s half way in between, so how one describes it depends on what you want to emphasize.
There’s another factor. HC is 55% female, Union 48%. As a group, high school girls tend to have higher grades than boys, while boys tend to have higher SATs. But this comment at Union only talked about grades and not test scores.
Union is different than most LACs because it has an engineering school, which enrolls about 25% of the student body. The engineering students are 75% male, explaining why Union has more male students on campus at a time when most colleges have more females. Engineering students are notoriously single track math/science kids with A’s in those classes but not A students across the board. Yet as students they must apply themselves because the study of engineering is quite rigorous.
What I’m trying to say is that comparing Union to Holy Cross or any other LAC is not exactly an apples to apples comparison and that has to be taken into account in any comparison of numbers.