College Admission for top tier schools for a somewhat average student.

Applying to College
21

Have you had conversations with your parents yet about financing college? If not, you should ask them, and even better go to a few schools you are targeting and run the Net Price Calculator (NPC) on those school’s sites. Depending on your family situation, you may qualify for need-based aid, or you may be in the position where your family’s expected contribution is going to be far higher than what your parent’s are prepared to pay and you need to seek schools where you might qualify for merit aid (once you have standardized test scores this will be easier). For match and safety schools, affordability is important.

It’s great that you’re already saving money for college - that shows drive and dedication - but are you and your family prepared for $60,000+ per year for 4 years?

22

Face facts. You’re a “B” student and you’re talking about colleges that accept (and more often reject) “A” students. As someone who needs financial aid, it would be unwise to throw money away on frivolous applications.

23

Where you go to school can be important but HOW you go to school is much more important. You will be at college to learn, not get a piece of paper with a certain name on it. Focus on learning. There are lots of quality schools that have beautiful campuses and wonderful students and professors. Try to find a place that’s a great fit for you, work hard, engage with your professors, and get to know your fellow students and treat them (and everyone else) well. You’ll do great. I guarantee there are many students right now at Texas A&M and Texas Tech–both terrific schools in your state–that will have just as much if not more “success” and lead as happy or happier lives than many students at Ivy League and Ivy League type schools, which are also terrific. Enjoy the process, look for a good fit with people you enjoy and can learn from, and good luck.

24

I’m going to be a bit harsh. Given your college ambitions, your GPA just doesn’t cut it. I can only come to one of two conclusions, assuming a lack of exceptional extenuating circumstances.

(1) You’re just not smart enough for those schools. You tried hard, you did your best and a 3.1 was the best that you could do. That’s fine. It certainly doesn’t mean that you’re stupid or that you’ll never get a good job or have a happy life. Plenty of people aren’t Mensa candidates and still have successful careers and fulfilling lives. Focus on realistic reaches (i.e., schools where you actually might get admitted) and even more so on appropriate matches and safeties.

OR

(2) In fact, you’re just as bright as the kids who get into the schools on your dream list and you didn’t bother trying. Maybe you’ve only recently realized you have a brain and like using it. I’ve known people like that. Lesson learned. Effort matters. For now, focus on realistic reaches (i.e., schools where you actually might get admitted) and even more so on appropriate matches and safeties. Work hard and do extremely well wherever you do attend and from there you can go on to a prestigious grad program. I’ve known several people who followed a path like that.

25

Your guidance counselor should be fired for encouraging you to apply to these schools, I am writing this after people tell you to be realistic, but you insist on applying anyway. There are many great schools that would take someone with your stats, just not the ones on your list

26

“You’re just not smart enough for these schools.” is a little rude of you to say. A B GPA does not mean OP is not “smart” enough. It just means his and her grades are not good enough.

27

I had to snoop and see your other threads to find out that your mother is Nigerian. That may help, but it’s still not enough for Princeton etc. But that is a hook. Try to research other schools that admit students in your range. There are threads here if you search for them

28

Oh anyway sorry for the delayed responses back but I would like to say I have no intentions of changing my mind based on the replies of people over the internet, I also should have specified that I have no intention of applying to all of the schools I listed I just wanted to create an idea of some top tier schools that I had ideas to applying to. However as I said before I do love these responses they are helpful to me and to @millie210 who said I wasn’t smart enough, thank you. Because of people like you, it brings out the best of me. Also just to provide a piece of information @citymama9 I do believe my guidance counselor knows what he’s talking otherwise he wouldn’t be at my school. I do have a list of match schools as well but the point of my thread was to get a lay of the land over some top tier schools. So once again thank you for the responses!

29

While I agree with the other posters who advise that you have little chance of getting accepted to schools like Princeton & MIT, (in addition to GPA which is solid but very low for the most selective schools, your PSAT is also out of range), I’m going to say that every student should have a reach school or two on the list. But be strategic about those, or you will just be throwing time and money away. Unless your SAT increases 400 points, you have zero chance for MIT. Choose reaches that emphasize holistic admissions, and where your passions match up. The most competitive schools are out of reach for most everyone, so pick some reaches that are not the most tippy top ones.
With regard to ecs, generally they can move the needle for applicants who have the requisite stats. The won’t however make up for hundreds of SAT points or many tenths of gpa. Good luck!

30

It would be so lovely if people read ALL the words in my earlier post.

I didn’t say the OP definitely isn’t smart enough for Princeton, MIT, etc.

I said

Maybe there are extenuating circumstances we’re not aware of, but if not:

EITHER

The OP isn’t smart enough for Princeton, etc (most people, including plenty of reasonably smart people, aren’t)

OR

The OP has the basic intellectual ability required to perform at that level, but hasn’t made the necessary effort.

Yes, I suppose we could come up with some other less likely scenarios that aren’t covered by extenuating circumstances, not being smart enough or not trying hard enough, but let’s face it, those three things probably cover most cases. I have no idea what the OP’s actual deal is.

I do suspect that the OP posted hoping for a cheering section, where we’d all agree with the GC and tell her she should definitely apply to Princeton etc, because she has an actual shot. Unfortunately, she apparently has no interest in the excellent and fairly unanimous advice she’s getting here.

31

@Julie0635 I do believe my guidance counselor knows what he’s talking otherwise he wouldn’t be at my school.

If he is telling kids with 3.1 GPA’s and 1090 PSAT scores to apply to MIT he shouldn’t be there, no offense. There are reach schools, and then there is simple craziness.

32

@Julie0635 , let’s say by some miracle you DO get into Princeton. You won’t, but let’s say you do. There is a great reason why these colleges have average test scores and grades that are very high. High grades show that a student has the work ethic required AND the intellectual capability to succeed at the school. High test scores show much the same thing, but they also show that a student can perform well in a certain amount of time in stressful circumstances.

The reason why the averages at Princeton are not in the range of your test scores and grades is really simple. Students like you will have an extremely difficult time coping with the expectations and requirements of a college like Princeton. The few students with your range of scores and grades are almost certainly recruited athletes. They probably recieve intensive extra private tutroing services and the like. Also, it is unlikely that those students will have both subpar grades AND test scores. It is most likely they have one or the other.

Your school counselor needs to be fired for encouraging you to apply to those schools. Maybe you qualify for app fee waivers, but you will not get in and it is simply unethical for your counselor to suggest you have any chance. Shame on him or her.

33

Standardized tests don’t evaluate native intelligence. They evaluate preparedness. I think that with enough time and proper instruction many kids could improve their scores, but that may take more time than OP has.

Julie, make sure your list includes universities you’re ready for now. Run the net price calculator for each school on your list to make sure it’s affordable.

This is your biggest issue? How much can your parents pay per year without borrowing? You can only borrow ~$5500/year on your own. If you’re low income you may qualify for a ~$5k Pell grant. What state are you in? As long as the school is ABET accredited, your local state school will be fine for engineering. Outside scholarships won’t cover tuition and many times they reduce need, so colleges reduce grants by the amount of the scholarship.

34

Yes, @austinmshauri is right. They aren’t the same as an IQ tests. There is some correlation and colleges like to see high scores. Scores can be raised with lots of practice. But not all colleges care about testing (students can have test anxiety, or simply have spent more money on prep, amongst other reasons), so OP should consider test-optional colleges too, where her ECs might give her more of a boost.

35

Getting admitted to a top university is hard; it is made even more difficult if you don’t have the grades or test scores. Asking for admittance into an engineering program, with financial aid, with a 3.1 GPA is a waste of money.

Yes, being URM is a hook, but not having the GPA isn’t going to work.

Your “knowledgeable” GC didn’t advise you that you should have taken the SAT in fall of Junior year? I guess he/she didn’t know, or was unaware, that to be possibly eligible for a National Merit Scholarship, you needed to take the SAT in fall of junior year?

Joining a bunch of clubs and participating in activities will not get your grades up to be competitive for the top schools. You need to be “ahead” in GPA and “ahead” in test scores ESPECIALLY for engineering. Do you even know what engineers do?

I have an engineering husband, an engineering daughter and a soon to be engineering son. It is all about grades and test scores.

36

@auntbea Students should be taking the PSAT by the fall of their junior year to be considered for the National Merit Scholarship competition, not the SAT. Then if they qualify as semifinalists via PSAT, they must earn a confirming score on the SAT. My D17 only took the SAT once - to “confirm” her PSAT index. (We’re ACT types 'round here.)

This is not to say that OP wasn’t given bad advice from the GC as far as not creating a solid list of schools, which is demonstrably the case. Just sayin’.

37

Take a look at this list of A plus schools for B students. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/a-plus

38

OP, seems you don’t really know what those schools look for, in general and for engineering. And looking for that info, then processing it, is a necessary part of the thinking and drive that tippy tops will look for, insist on.

This is NOT just a matter of ambling through hs, having some ECs, then throwing your hat in the ring and hoping lightning strikes. This is not going on assumptions, ambitions, or what some GC says. It’s what your actual record shows.

3.1 GPA: This is far lower than they expect, the bulk of kids who get past first cut will have 4.0 uw. Then kids who have maybe 1 or 2 A- or B’s, but not in the cores that matter.

Posters are right: your grades in hs indicate how dedicated you are, how hard you worked, and how prepared you are for the actual classes in that college. B level learning is not A level learning and readiness. What says you’re ready for MIT or Princeton?

Next, if you want engineering and a tippy top (or a school that offers top engineering programs,) you need math and sci ECs, collaborative experiences, not managing a team or starting some club or just racking up some vol hours. You need more than an idea or thinking it will be a nice career or you want to save the world.

In high school,“ambition” gets a pat on the head. People nod and say nice things. In college admissions, you have to have the goods. Ambition has to be proven out, in the record.

And there are so many kids whose family roots are in Africa who have been doing superbly, that’s not a hook for a B student with some usual ECs.

Sorry.

39

@mnparentof3 you are correct! I goofed.

@Julie0635, the advice you have received is correct. @lookingforward has summed up what everyone is telling you. Your chances, with your GPA and test scores, at your “choices” are really poor.

My kids were also considered “hooked” because of our status as Mexican Americans that made them URM (underrepresented minorities). That being said, they had to have excellent GPA’s and test scores to even get considered for their schools. They also were athletes (not managers) of multiple sports. They tutored, led clubs and activities and worked. Even with those accomplishments, they didn’t get in to some of those schools you’ve listed. My son was waitlisted at MIT and he was a National Merit Winner!!!

Consider what everyone is telling you and apply at some safeties.

40

You came to this site for advice and are getting a dose of truth. Disparaging the opinions of those who are trying to help you serves you poorly.