@collegemomjam, schools don’t require AP scores because many HS’s in the US don’t even offer AP classes, so it would be unfair to require them.
But don’t assume that they don’t matter. Though it’s all opaque. They certainly seem to matter more at some schools than others.
@PurpleTitan I’m not saying they don’t matter but I am a little surprised they don’t matter more. But you raise a good point about the “fairness” issue.
But I called many top schools last year on behalf of a client who was applying with strong AP Scores and it seemed like some admissions offices were kind of indifferent towards them. Not even sure if she should send them. Or if they would be used.
I get the fairness issue and the process has to adjust to that. I just feel like that’s the best way to judge the true rigor of a program. There are such disparities in some schools AP offerings. And it usually shows in the scores.
We spoke to a consultant for my D and she advised against sending APs. My D has all 4s and 5s and applied to Ivys and highly selective schools. She said it’s not necessary. I’m sure there is a another school of thought.
I think with Ivies if you don’t send all 5’s it could hurt you.
Another thing to keep in mind if you are sending scores…
Sometimes you might waive yourself out of a class you don’t want to be waived out of. And they may make you take a harder level class to fulfill a requirement. This happened to my daughter.
So it definitely has to be thought out before you send.
With that said, you can put “AP Scholar with Distinction” on your application and “National AP Scholar” as well if you can get those before your applications are due.
On the APs, I am under the impression that they need to be self-reported on the app rather than officially sent from College Board, as the official report might go to registration rather than admissions.
Virtually every selective college saw a big increase in apps this year and that is the source of decreasing acceptance rates. How much of that is more total applicants applying to selective schools vs more applications per applicant? Thoughts?
I was concerned because while our HS offers a ton of APs, they restrict who can take them. No APs as a freshman period. The only APs as a soph are AP Comp Sci if you took the prereq as a freshman, Art History, and APUSH1. I was stunned when I saw here kids taking Calc as a sophomore–I’ve heard of 1 kid EVER who did that in our school and he was truly gifted, and not just because his parents thought he was. Things open up junior year but they still have strict prerequisites–for example, you can’t go straight into an AP science class. You take an honors level high school class first and then, if you get an A or A- you take the AP class as a junior or senior (eg, Honors Bio is a prereq for AP Bio). Nobody graduates with AP Chem, Bio, and Physics–you don’t have time. Math courses are similarly very tracked, beginning in 6th grade, and you can’t jump from one track to another, so if you are mis-tracked in elementary school (as I believe my S was) you’re out of luck. Add into that state requirements (here in NJ gym is required all 4 years, we have a 1-year “career” requirement–could be anything from accounting to child care to engineering–a 1-year arts requirement, and a 1-semester financial literacy requirement, all of which take up precious class time in the schedules). So when I came here and saw kids are graduating with 11-12 APs, which would be extremely difficult at our HS, I was concerned. But I guess schools realize that, because some of our graduates still get into elite schools even without 11-12 (or more) APs.
If it were simply a matter of the same pool of kids applying to an ever-increasing number of schools you would expect the number of applications to go up but the acceptance rates to remain the same because each school would yield a lower percentage of applicants.
Many select colleges are doing a great deal of outreach to first generation students and students from underserved schools, in other words, bright kids who in a previous generation would simply have applied to their local community college or state school under the misapprehension that elite schools don’t take kids like them or are unaffordable. Add an increase in the number of international students and the pool is just plain larger and more qualified.
I am stunned that so many kids are applying to colleges with perfect 4.0 averages. I must be naive, but I honestly can’t image how that happens? These kids never have an off day? Never write an essay the teacher doesn’ like? I know there are some true geniuses out there, but there seem to be so many more now. Thousands upon thousands of kids who never made a misstep in four years of high school. On top of that, they all seem to have mind boggling extra curriculars. They are all the presidents of the schools, varsity captains, nationally ranked musicians and have hundreds of volunteering hours. I could never have achieved what these kids do and I went to a top Ivy. How on earth are they managing?
Our public HS also restricts when you can take AP’s too – none as a Freshman, limited amount and exceptions as a Sophomore. Though the floodgate opens Junior and Senior year and most competitive kids take 5 or more each year then…
In terms of grade inflation at some HS’s, I’m not sure how much it matters. The admissions departments have detailed profiles and comparative stats on each high school. They know the average GPA, the GPA of the top tier, etc. Heck, they know the average grade of specific classes. So if the school is an easy grader but there’s one class that isn’t, they know it. They also likely have data on how well previous students from any given school did once they arrived at their college. So whether the grading is easy or hard, you are mostly competing against your own current and previous peers’ performances. At least this is true of competitive schools that send a decent number of applicants to these selective colleges. The data may be less robust for some smaller, rural schools that don’t see high-po applicants as often.
That’s why it’s so meaningless when people list their GPA’s here, particularly weighted GPA’s. It’s so school-specific. I particularly laugh when I read the GPA’s over 5 – which should be statistically impossible (but of course those schools are doing things like giving extra points for A+, treating even non AP courses as worth more than 4, etc.). At our school a perfect 4.0 unweighted with a student taking the maximum # of AP’s they would be allowed would max out somewhere just north of 4.5. At another school a 4.7 weighted still isn’t a 4.0 unweighted. Etc. But the colleges no that.
@Sue22 Beyond the outreach to under-privileged and represented students, these schools are also marketing like crazy to every possible student even those who aren’t under-privileged but are also long shots to be accepted. And they are consciously doing these to make it easier and easier to apply. They are gaming their stats by maximizing their applicant pool. No need for any supplemental info. Some make the application free, even to students of means. Etc.
@citivas According to the Collegeboard conversion table, anything over a 93 is a 4.0, but there is a big difference between a 93 and a 96. So yes, a lot of 4.0s, but I think its misleading.
The disparity between grading systems is mind-boggling. The Montgomery County School Public School system in Maryland rounds B’s up to A’s and uses a 80-90, 90-100 scale. There is a big difference between 80 and 97 coursework.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/an-easy-a-under-new-rules-these-high-school-students-could-see-grades-soar/2016/05/11/6f3e2a5a-16f2-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html?utm_term=.b7eb1e6b88df
@RuthieRoush Wow. That’s crazy, thanks for sharing. Such obvious grade inflation. I can’t imagine it helps the kids with admissions in the long run, though perhaps it helps their artificial self esteem in the meantime.
I also shrug my shoulders at the GPAs posted here. Every school weights differently so they are really meaningless between schools. If you look at all this stuff you realize the importance of standardized tests. Yes, there are huge problems with them too, but how else do you figure out the value of an A across schools? Throw in the home schoolers and it gets even more complicated. I know a kid who is home schooled with a 3.9 GPA but her ACT was around 21. Really? I think this is why college admissions don’t make as much sense as they used to–simply to many variables, too much variation between schools, courses, grades, etc. I feel for these adcoms.
I think colleges know the culture and grading policies of many of the High Schools. They also see historical student success from particular schools. I’m pretty sure they know the meaning of an A from one school versus another. I can tell you that my D’s HS is a very competitive school, but we also had a cheating situation a few years back so there are some colleges that just don’t take our students, but there are some IVYs and top schools that take a bunch of them every year. These colleges know which schools produce good students for them.
@collegemomjam, high AP scores set you up well for admissions to UK unis.
@PurpleTitan, thanks, that’s good to know! I have a daughter in the UK right now studying abroad (but through an American school!).
@citivas and others, I completely agree that GPA’s are meaningless. I think some of the colleges recalculate GPA’s.
However, grades supposedly count more than ever now and while I agree the colleges know the differences between the top competitive high schools and the ones that are not as competitive, I still think it can hurt a student to not get all A’s in a sea of straight A students when applying to a top college. I think they only spend so much time on an application, so not sure how much research they can do on each kids’ transcript.
I know University of Rochester gives out their merit aid based on hs transcripts…kids get more points for A’s, less for B’s.
There are so many variables and I’m sure each college has a different spin on how the approach the process. Wish I could be a fly on the wall!
@collegemomjam I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall. I can’t imagine the kind of conversations that must take place at these top schools. Maybe some Harvard AO will write a tell all. I would buy that!