@marysidney - so Erskine stating LGBT students are not welcome is representative of all schools and peoples in the South? I’ll grant you the South is the most resistant to change, however where were you when Elon University students were trying to get Chick-fil-a removed from campus because some of their profits were going to anti-gay groups? Plant of schools in the South are welcoming. Just like there are anywhere in the country, there are liberal AND conservative schools in the South. And there are liberal AND conservative people as well. I’m a transplant, but I know many people who have been in the South for generations and fully support the idea of marriage equality.
This is an excellent point, except that many who oppose gay rights believe that homosexuality is an acquired condition. In this view, gays go around “recruiting” unsuspecting straights to the homosexual “lifestyle.” So I guess the fear would be that if too many straights get recruited, the species could become endangered?
From an evolutionary standpoint, one theory was that gays do not contribute to the perpetuation of the species, so they use up resources that could be allotted to those who will reproduce. Of course, this does not apply IRL today, and is just an idea I heard.
True, but then why should someone “insist” that they be allowed to attend Liberty. In this case, the issue of gay students and their “rights” IS starting to bump up against law and would preclude the college from not admitting self-identified gay people. But still I’m not sure that it precludes their choice to attend…only infringes on their happiness which isn’t necessarily a civil right.
@momofthreeboys As long as these schools receive government funding so their students can afford to attend, they should be held accountable for acts of discrimination. The pursuit of happiness is considered a human right:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”
It is possible that these students were forced to go this college because of parents, finances, or lack of other options. Do you really believe that the right to discriminate against students for their harmless personal activities is worth protecting?
@romanigypsyeyes @albert69
On the topic of tax dollars supporting religious colleges vs supporting abortion, America’s government is meant to be separated from religion. Should it be funding religious institutions?
Whereas abortion, no matter your opinion, is not religious.
I think that this would be a good point to bring up the Letter to Dr. Laura.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/drlaura.asp
And there are definitely people who should be forced to practice against their faith. Ever heard of honor killings?
Also, the Catholic Church pretty much endorsed Medieval Monks being homosexual, and gave them civil unions. http://www.cracked.com/article_20474_5-shockingly-progressive-ideas-from-primitive-cultures_p2.html.
I have deleted a number of posts, some of which strayed way off topic, and others which had so many personal invectives in them they were not worth editing. Stick to the topic of colleges and their positions about homosexuality and stay away from the personal name-calling. This is clearly a hot-button topic, so it isn’t surprising that things got out of hand quickly. But any more of it and the thread will have to close.
alex, I think we said the same thing - that college and universities cannot violate civil rights. My question was more philosophical - as expressed in both my previous posts - would someone “want” to attend a college where the predominant attitude on the campus did not fit you. It could be attitude about anything really. No human being “forces” a young adult to go to a specific college.
As I said, I’m against colleges or universities practicing discrimination in their admittance policy, but I’m not against colleges with specific cultures as I said. As long as the college does not discriminate and restrict acceptances or access to education on the basis of legal protections then it’s a choice for young adults to attend a college that has expressed a firm stance opposing homosexuality or two-piece bathing suits in the college pool or whatever other non-educational personal activities they want to denounce. The choice is with the person who chooses to attend a college with a culture they don’t agree with. Do I think it’s worth fighting the few remaining golf courses who won’t let women play, or the golf courses that restrict the hours women can play? Not really. There are other choices. Do I think as a nation we have an overwhelming need to weed out and persecute golf courses that only allow men…not really. I’d rather work on equal pay for equal work or more important things.
Here’s the thing: Erskine, as a private college, can choose to, as they say, make “institutional decisions” based on their religious beliefs. And the students who attend are free to agree or be silent, and applicants can make their decisions about whether the school is right for them. But I, as a person who does not believe in this kind of selective reading of the Bible, am also free to regard the school as an example of Christianity run amok. I think less of the school because of that position (I’m sure they would be happy to hear that), and I think less of anyone who feels that singling out one “sin” for “institutional decisions” is a loving and charitable reaction. I am aware that it is not only in the south that such attitudes are to be found, but it is also true that in the south such attitudes seem to be tolerated, and even approved, more than they would be here in the north, where I live. There is much in the north that I would like to see changed, but one difference is that far fewer of us identify as religiously conservative, and generally our attitudes reflect that. You can’t have it both ways: either you claim the moral high ground as religiously purer, and accept that those of us who reject your definition will also reject your claim with contumely, or you acknowledge that there is virtue in multiple opinions, and admit to some uneasiness with the willingness of some people to claim the power to determine on God’s behalf whom he would cast into utter darkness.
A religiously-affiliated institution in the South disapproves of homosexuality. I’m stunned. Why is this news? I struggle to understand why any non-heterosexual would chose to study in a Christian college for any reason other than financial reasons.
They weren’t banned.
Well, S has spent 4 years at a Catholic institution, where he feels he has had a great experience. Last I knew we still considered ourselves “Christian”. Perhaps you don’t mean THAT type of Christian?
^
“Christian colleges” is a term that usually specifies evangelical Christian colleges. Catholic universities and primarily secular colleges with Protestant ties (e.g. Sewanee, Centre, Kenyon) usually aren’t included under that umbrella.
Religious colleges aren’t the only places a queer student may feel uncomfortable. The surviving men’s colleges (in contrast to their female counterparts) and HBCUs have a long history of homophobia and transphobia.
That said, these colleges can and do attract LGBT students – after all, sexuality is only one aspect of one’s personality and mindset. I have gay friends who graduated from places like Harding and Berry and were pretty satisfied with their experience…and others who would’ve been absolutely miserable there. Some people need more open and accepting environments than others.
How did Christians (in general, including Catholics and mainline Protestants) allow the term “Christian” to be appropriated by evangelical or conservative Protestants?
It’s probably a branding thing. For example, colleges such as Fordham and Georgetown are called Jesuit schools, not Christian colleges (even though semantically they are entitled to use either term), and BYU is usually not grouped with them either even though it is owned by the Mormon Church, a Christian tradition.
It does strike me as strange that when people say “Christian college” they automatically mean some place like Liberty, but it kind of makes sense because the other Christian church-linked colleges tend to brand themselves using other terms.
I thought us bien-pensants who frequent CC were in favor of diversity of thought and opinion?
@sylvan8798 Catholic/Jesuit universities are pretty unique as far as religiously-affliated colleges go, and they aren’t what I was referring to. A gay student would have no problems at Georgetown. They would have some issues at Liberty or Gordon.
“How did Christians (in general, including Catholics and mainline Protestants) allow the term “Christian” to be appropriated by evangelical or conservative Protestants?”
Nobody asked them.
Erskine College is associated with the most conservative wing of the Presbyterian Church (which does not ordain women, for example). Erskine also has a seminary on site. The college has a whopping 575 undergraduate students whose mid-50% ACT scores are 19 to 24. Not sure why it deserves much attention.
“Christian” colleges usually are non-denominational. In other words, not specifically Baptist, or Methodist, or Catholic, etc… I am a Catholic, and when I speak of Notre Dame, I call it a Catholic university not simply Christian. Sewanee is Episcopalian. I don’t think anybody hijacked the word. Christian is simply less specific than Catholic or Lutheran, etc…
I did once meet a non-denominational Christian who did not even know the Episcopal Church existed. I had to explain it to him.