College Board urges Congress to offer tuition aid, citizenship

Parents Forum
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<p>Prefect, it IS being done. I know huge numbers of kids who are here with aunts, uncles, cousins, siblings, friends to go to school here in NY where they are registered in school with no questions asked. So many Hispanic kids that classes are taught in Spanish, transitioning to English. And yes, if they are here three years in NY, they are allowed to go to college at state rates. The big bugaboo here is that they cannot get state, federal, or government aid. But yes, a kid who is an illegal alien in NY can go to SUNYs at state prices if he has proof (transcript) that he has been in state for 3 years. If the kid is a US citizen who lives in another state, he pays OOS rates. Also, if illegal aliens are eligible for many of the private scholarships and school grants that do not require FAFSA. What they are primarily losing out on right now in our state are the FAFSA dependent monies. In fact, an illegal alien, challenged background, URM status who is an outstanding student with high test scores has a better chance of getting into HPY and other such schools with a full ride than most American kids with the same academic stats. And given the obstacles many such kids have to overcome, they certainly fit the profile of what top schools want to see in their students. </p>

<p>But to be offering these goods on an illegal basis is entrapping a whole group of needy people deliberately. I do not blame those who come here seeking a better life. I would think I would do the same in their situations. I blame our country for making the illegal path easier than the legal one. What kind of respect for the laws are we showing in this system?</p>

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<p>Cptofthehouse,
I know the situation you describe happens fairly frequently in many states. However, if these students also become eligible for aid, it will create an even bigger incentive for people to bring their children here illegally. You are probably correct that an illegal alien URM with challenged background and great stats would have a better than average chance of getting into many schools. You are right- this would make the illegal path even easier than the legal one right now. Shouldn’t we be expanding aid to needy citizens first?</p>

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<p>The sad part of offering these kids in-state tuition is that they can’t then get jobs legally. They’ll have to fake a SS# and lie to get a job.</p>

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<p>The problem with just expanding benefits and privileges to those who are here illegally without getting them to a legal status is that they are just getting more deeply entrenched here as a second class citizen. As Dragonmom points out, the problem does not end with a college degree. just as we created welfare generations, we can make dynasties of illegal immigrants.</p>

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<p>Prefect, I truly would just send all illegal aliens out of the country and come up with some orderly way to have legal immigrants. I have no interest in expanding benefits for them as I think it is really a cruel and hypocritical thing to do.</p>

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<p>“come up with some orderly way to have legal immigrants” - no need, it exists already and thousands are coming very legal way, get processed properly (their health and criminal records are checked to insure the safety of US citizens - immunization, infectious desases crime control and so forth, which are government functions, that are possible only in case of legal immigrants), they get temporary papers so that they can get green cards, ID cards, Driver licences, SSN, work legally and eventually (usually in 5 years) can apply for citizenship.</p>

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right but - the program includes a provision to make them at least legal residents.</p>

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they already have an option. Join the military. The quickest route to citizenship is through enlisting.</p>

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<p>Under the DREAM act, the law that’s at issue, they would be legal and could get jobs. The whole point of the DREAM act is to provide a path to legal residency–qualifying for in-state tuition and federal loans is almost an incidental by-product of that legal status. </p>

<p>Taxpayers foot the bill either way: if these students have only a high school education, an education in which taxpayers have already invested, as required by federal law (or drop out, since there’s not much incentive to finish), they’ll consume more in government services than will ever reach the government from taxes. </p>

<p>States that give these students in-state tuition have found no influx of illegal immigrant students and actually found that they increase college revenues.</p>

<p>Finally, selective colleges have targets for international students, so it’s hard to see these kids (whose numbers are tiny in the big picture) displacing other students in great numbers at elite colleges.</p>

<p>Compassion and humanitarian issues aside, this makes some economic sense as part of a comprehensive approach to immigration reform.</p>

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<p>I worked as an ELL tutor last year, so I can put a face to this problem. </p>

<p>Alberto was brought here when he was 3. He speaks Spanish, but he can’t read or write it. He was in 8th grade last year, and was extremely bright in math, but I couldn’t seem to get him motivated. When I mentioned college he said,“Nope. Illegal.” I see this bright kid who thinks he has no future. He can’t “go back to Mexico” and work. He can’t read the language! It’s not his fault he’s here. Was he supposed to refuse to come with his parents at the age of 3?</p>

<p>I understand what the conerns are. How can we afford to do this when millions of citizens can’t afford college either? I say we can’t afford not to, because like it or not these kids are here to stay and if there was ever a scenario that pushes a kid towards gangs and crime, this is it. What is the alternative? Not offer them a legal path to citizenship? Not offer opportunities? Fine, that’s what we’re doing now, and it’s going to be a disaster.</p>

<p>Won’t this encourage people to sneak their kids in just for the educational opportunity? Could you really blame them for that anyway? But, the kid who comes here in 9th grade, as somebody mentioned earlier, is going to be so academically disadvantaged that he’s not going to be going to college after high school. Those kids might fall under the umbrella of this program, but the language fluency problems are going to be an issue and it’s really aimed at helping the kids who came here very young. You can speak English very well and not be fluent, because if you read and write it at the first grade level then you’re not fluent. </p>

<p>I didn’t understand this when I first started the job, but even the children that came here as toddlers and learn English early are language delayed. They live in Spanish speaking homes. Nobody is reading to them in English. Nobody can help them with their homework. You can have a perfectly lovely conversation with the 7th grade girl in my class last year, and then if you ask her what she’s reading–it’s a Junie B. Jones book. And you know what else? She needed help with some of the words in it. </p>

<p>So, go back home and go to college? Not even possible. They don’t have the language skills. They can’t go home and work either, yet the only future they see for themselves is working 14 hour days for low pay. Try raising your own kids and keeping them on the straight and narrow when they have no hope for the future. How many conversations do you all have with your children about the importance of grades and staying out of trouble and blah blah blah, and to what end? It’s for college! Keep the GPA up! Work hard! Hey, you don’t have to work hard in school to clean toilets. And they know that.</p>

<p>You can certainly make the argument that the fluency programs in our primary schools can be a drag on the budget. If we didn’t spend the money on ELL, maybe we could offer more AP classes. Maybe we could add on to the seriously overcrowded high school. But I promise you that it’s a lot cheaper to educate them than to incarcerate them. I’d rather spend the money to give them a future.</p>

<p>Do we need immigration reform? Absolutely! But let’s not pretend that for years everybody didn’t just look the other way on this because they wanted the cheap labor. They wanted to fill jobs that even our teenagers wouldn’t do. So, now it’s costing us something. Well, I say we sent a very mixed message for a long time by being so lax about the whole thing, and in the end if we punish these kids for that then we’re punishing ourselves as well.</p>

<p>You know why they like the illegal Mexican dry wall crews around here? Because they work twice as hard as the other guys and they’re a lot cheaper. Everybody is culpable in this, except the children.</p>

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<p>Helenback,
Does it occur to you that most immigrants including adults coming to other country without language and achieve everything that their heart desires LEGAL way, including awesome jobs in totally new fields / professions after learning language in their 30’s and 40’s and some even later and working full time and going to school in thier 50’s and raising families all at the same time. I am not impressed with a “bright” kid who is not capable to learn another language at 15 or so. I am also talking from personal experience as well as experience of very LEGAL immigrants that I am very familiar.</p>

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<p>This is where your argument falls apart for me. Life isn’t a choice between college or gangs. That perspective is insulting to all Americans who chose a profession that did not include or require a college degree, and went on to live productive, fulfilling lives.</p>

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<p>So exactly why do illegal immigrants get treated better than legal immigrants who were actually invited here? Legal immigrants with proper visas and paperwork get harassed at the airport on a daily if not hourly basis. But illegals sneak across the border and then they get instant citizenships. Maybe some of these legal immigrants should just fly into Vancouver or Toronto and drive across the border.</p>

<p>If no Americans would do their jobs at the prevailing wage, then let them back in on H1Bs. Or create a new category called “H1C” for unskilled labor. Or throw them all out and clear that greencard backlog.</p>

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<p>I don’t know why we’d let an illegal alien get a lower tuition cost than we would a legal citizen of Wyoming or some other state. I feel sorry for the kids, but until someone comes up with something that absolutely and permanently punishes the parents for breaking our laws, forget it. The very thought that these illegal aliens could use the Dream Act to become citizens and then legitimize their illegal parents, siblings and grandparents makes my blood boil. The very Democratic Colorado legislature got an earful about this when the act was considered in Colorado a few weeks ago, and they wisely decided that this was one battle not worth fighting.</p>