College Consultants - Value or Venom?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Blossom, Michele Hernandez would have torn her hair out with my crew. I wish i’d been able to push them onto a college counselor like that just to see the fireworks. Especially if there is some guarantee in there. One of mine tore up the college counselor at his private school that insisted on taking on his college aps. It had to be a school record in failure. The next one had the ignominy of being the first one in his senior class to be rejected from college. In fact he got a number of rejections before the other kids got their apps out. I don’t know about the fun part. I’d love to have the $40K to turn this last one over to a private counselor, but that is more than I am telling my kids I can pay for each year of college.</p>

<p>I’m still looking for tried and unstoppable ambition. Mine all preferred to be world class couch sitters, stirring only when I tipped over the couch and threw a screaming fit.</p>

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<p>War top college counselors are generally working with is wealthy high achievers who need to break through the crowd of high achievers applying to top colleges. So they are spoon fed the things that will differentiate themselves and helped to present themselves in ways that reach the admissions committee. </p>

<p>Think taking a high stats Asian math champion and helping him write a funny essay.</p>

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<p>…and that’s what makes an application genuine. I’d rather have my kids project their true selves than portray an image created by a stranger, even if the stranger intimately knows the process. I’d happily accept less-than-perfect results in the college admissions game if my kids were able to keep their senses-of-humor and senses-of-self. I’ve got better uses for $40K</p>

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And then I had the brilliant kid who really was not interested in putting together a good application. Writing personal essays was torture to him. Meanwhile my smart slacker knew just how to optimize his somewhat flimsy resume.</p>

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<p>We just finished the college selection process. We used two different types of counselors and my experience has been mixed so might be useful. For a first timer - the college learning curve is fairly steep. My first college info came from a free seminar at our HS when my D was a sophomore or junior. I learned a little bit about financial aid there - that there was merit based aid and needs-based aid, for example - and that some schools ONLY give need’s based aid. I wish I had understood even more that for most kids - including our D - the scholarships and financial aid she was offered from the colleges themselves are by far the most important thing to consider. Outside scholarships are just not that available or substantial - so appraising what you can afford and researching what kinds of aid various colleges offer - and to whom - is really useful.</p>

<p>The first consultant we hired was one that solicited us through email with a “free session” - a phone consult. It’s a big firm located distantly that is very focused on helping people with the financial aspect. They told us the FAFSA and Profile were very complicated to fill out and that they could help us figure out how to position our finances for maximum aid and fill out those forms for us. What I wish I had known – but didn’t – is that their “strategy” for helping us position our finances was going to be to suggest we put a lot of cash into a whole life insurance policy. They were primarily life insurance sellers. (The cash value of life insurance is one thing college financial aid forms - even the CSS profile - doesn’t ask about) They added some “counseling” into their services… but as soon as they came back with the life insurance solution (after we had signed up for their service and paid them a several thousand dollar up front fee - plus signed up for a monthly service). We didn’t pay them extra for the extra counseling they offered since I felt if we wanted that (essay help, etc) we’d rather pay someone local and face to face for it. On the life insurance - due to health reasons - we aren’t able to buy large whole life policies - so that made their financial advice basically useless to us - and they had few other ideas for bringing our EFC under control once that one was ruled out. I don’t think what they offered was bad necessarily – but it was sold in a deceptive manner - so I’d just say beware of firms that offer the financial counseling online. I ended up filling out the financial aid forms (FAFSA, Profile, IDOC) myself since frankly - I wouldn’t really trust anyone else to do it when it came down to it… although this firm would have done it for us.</p>

<p>Our second consultant was an hourly fee based, local consultant that helped structure the application process. We started working with her in the spring of Jr. Year. We also read books and studied websites to develop a good list of colleges. She formalized the research process and gave us an assurance that we were on track. I’m one of those who felt she really helped keep tension out of the process. We didn’t pay her boatloads of money - just a fair fee for the hours she met with my D. We found her through professional associations. These are a few she is a member of:</p>

<p>American Institute of Certified Educational Planners
Higher Education Consultants Association
National Association for College Admission Counseling</p>

<p>We interviewed two potential local counselors and this one really clicked personalities and process with my D and seemed to “get” her. I continued to be very involved with identifying schools, planning visits and reviewing applications - but she was a valuable extra member of the team. She didn’t edit essays - although she might have if asked - but she brainstormed and did give feedback when requested. Her style was quite low key - but the other one we interviewed offered a full service “package” for a flat fee - just wasn’t for us since we already knew a lot.</p>

<p>Oh and this counselor was VERY adamant about not “packaging” our D and making sure everything was done by her and in her own voice. She said colleges really don’t like to see over packaged applicants or “perfect” presentations. When I tried to clean up my D’s resume just make it look a little more professional - she told me throw it away and made D do it herself. I was happy that every essay really reflected D’s own ideas and voice. I think the counselor was able to offer a good “ear” though - for the topics etc to say yea or nay or various ideas D came up… with the focus on keeping it the most authentic. I thin the other counselor might have been more inclined to package - but we didn’t pick him.</p>

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<p>Glad I live in the Northwest. We met with a private counselor to forecast my rising junior’s classes and put together a schedule for taking the SAT and ACT (including study guide calendar) for an hour session for $75. She told us to call her in a year. I don’t think it needs to break the bank to hire someone reputable and help your child get invested in the process.</p>

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<p>That article about Michele Hernandez, titled “I can get your kid into an Ivy” leads off with a story about helping a young man get into his top choice school…Haverford. Which is a wonderful school, but it’s not part of the Ivy League. </p>

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<p>Well, yes, but it’s not going to make the kid into the cello-wielding (LOL blossom!) wunderkind:</p>

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<p>The impression of Hernandez’s style that stuck with me from her books was her example of an activities roster. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/985861-michele-hernandezs-activities-list-opinions.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/985861-michele-hernandezs-activities-list-opinions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>We have three kids in college and did not use a college consultant. All three were accepted at their top school choice. They are very different kids so they went down three very different paths. One is at Dartmouth, one at Villanova and one at the College of Wooster.</p>

<p>My husband and I loved working with our kids on this process. If you have the time and interest it is a very rewarding experience. If you don’t have the time to help your kids with the process, I would strongly advise interviewing several college consultants as they are all different. </p>

<p>One of my friends used a costly and highly respected college consultant and was told that her son should target the College of Charleston. The consultant did not factor in that his high school grades and classes were weak because he had cancer in high school and was undergoing treatment during this time. His parents had him apply elsewhere against the consultants advise. He ended up at Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Another friend used a consultant for her brilliant but difficult son. He was advised to apply only to Ivy league schools and the like. He was rejected by all of them.</p>

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<p>@SlitheyTove, I just read the activities list that you linked and actually it reminds me of how a stellar resume presents each job tasks summary. It is a very smart demonstration of the student’s skills and characters. It presents all the tasks that the individual did, which included leadership abilities and management by directing, having technical experience with the flares, managerial skills as she managed the actors, humility by no hesitation to take tasks like cleaning up the stage. That’s how one cleverly utilizes limited space to showcase skills beyond the personal essay. I wish I had thought of it. y child just listed the activities with a short description but nothing elaborate like that.</p>

<p>"(for a group called The Entertainment Group)
My major time commitment takes place outside of school. Driven by my passion for all facets of the theater, I branched out to new areas, specifically directing and theatrical production. In my role as assistant director in a professional production, I am required to manage the actors and technicians, as well as to maintain a prompt book, which holds all cues for the final performance. Additionally, after the director had staged a specific scene, it was my responsibility to clean the scene, ensuring a professional product. Lastly, during the performance, I detonated many large explosive devices, which produced a mystical flarelike effect."</p>

<p>There are different type of consultants and well respected ones earned their reputation based on the track record as there is a lot of word of mouth. There are also different set skills and as I said you get what you pay for. You pay for the person’s previous work experience as an ad com at Yale, or Mount Holyoke, etc. Hernandez was an ad officer at Dartmouth. Some consultants present their talent as ivy college grads, or being an English professor major. That’s not it. </p>

<p>An example of what they do with essays is what oldfort said:
“I think the most valuable service the counselor provided was essays. Unlike what some people like to think, they do not write your kid’s essays. The counselor had someone on his staff work with D2 to discuss topic ideas, helped D2 with the organization of those essays, and sometimes would say, “This is what I am getting from your essay, is this what you want to convey to your readers?””</p>

<p>A top consultant does not package students. They show you other options and support with evidence their opinion. It is just like consulting in any other business. They can not do magic. They give you the probability for each school, offer suggestions for other schools that may be a good fit, and advice you how to present yourself on the particular group of people that used to be members of. If everything could be learned from a book, then all the political campaigns would not hire all these consultants with knowledge of the local population in each state, or the micro population targeting.</p>

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<p>The one area I do not see anyone addressing is that my son’s intended major changed 3 times during the college process so schools that were good for major #1 were not for major #2 or major #3. </p>

<p>At first he thought he would go to school on the west coast, then decided he preferred to stay on the east coast. So a college consultant would have to do what I did, keep redoing the list only I would be paying them money to do this.</p>

<p>I personally found I was the best one to manage things since I knew better what his other interests were but I also had the time and of course CC.</p>

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<p>“Lastly, during the performance, I detonated many large explosive devices, which produced a mystical flarelike effect.”</p>

<p>Ana1, this sounds like it was written by an adult. I would have loved it if it said, “During the performance, I got to detonate huge explosives. It was pretty awesome.”</p>

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<p>I had the pleasure of reading few essays from some CC students, and they sound like:
“Lastly, during the performance, I detonated many large explosive devices, which produced a mystical flarelike effect.”</p>

<p>I think a consultant probably would tell him not to write like that.</p>

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<p>Ana, I agree that the beefed-up activities list was a great idea. My beef (hahaha) was with the language Hernandez used. Awkward, stilted, sounding totally like an adult wrote it. Hernandez boasts that she leaves no fingerprints on applications, but those activities descriptions were like a great big magenta watermark that says “REWRITTEN BY AN ADULT TO SOUND IMPRESSIVE” :rolleyes:</p>

<p>A 17 or 18 year old who describes getting to set off fireworks merely as something that “produced a mystical flarelike effect” is either a full-blooded Vulcan (oooh, a hook! :wink: :slight_smile: ) or heavily stage-managed.</p>

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<p>How many parents would suggest or students would think to mention the explosive detonation, or the cleaning up of the stage? That’s the point, not so much of how it was written. The write up depends on what the student wants to show. May be if the student is a writer wants to demonstrate his literary skills and will use the “mystical flarelike effect.” She might also wrote it like that in the example so people can not copy how she writes. It is like the old recipes by famous chefs given to magazine readers, but who always changed how they really did the recipe. The clueless readers could not understand why they could not reproduce the majestic cake they ate at the chef’s restaurant.</p>

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<p>I have warning about cleanning essay. We had many top college reps visiting D’s private prep. HS and we sat thru several sessions to listen to general advice, although D. had no plans to apply to Ivy / Elite (she calls them “fancy” schools and kids who go there “intense”). Well, many adcom reps mentioned that it is very clear to them when essay was re-visited by adult (or even originated by one), parent or consultant, it does not matter. They make a note of such polished essays and it is a big MINUS on kid’s application. Big NO, NO. Please, be aware of that. Colleges are looking for applicant’s essay, and if it is not perfect but touches somebody’s heart, it is fine.</p>

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<p>MiamiDap, nice to read that and hear them say that, but it’s just untrue. Two of my kids went to a school where nearly all of the essays were very polished and i knew a number of families using high priced consultants for top collee admissions. The % of accepts is very high, as it is in this crowd anyways where the essays do tend to be checked and rechecked. THis is the sort of thing that just makes me want to give these adcoms a kick in the backside. </p>

<p>When they talk of topics that are not smart to use for essays, they usually hit on the very topics these kids who don’t know better use. Each time my kids nailed it on such subjects. So they like to make fun and say they are tired of the type of essays most likely to be genuine from kids who are not getting a lot of help from knowledgeable folks. </p>

<p>I don’t believe these counselors one bit. I know too many kids who were accepted these top schools who were packaged to the absolute max.</p>

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<p>^I just wonder who writes their college papers? I feel sorry for these kids, writing takes experience, including experience polishing your own work and do it over and over and over while you have time in HS. College kids could not afford spending that much time.
Oh, well, wishing the bet to everybody at every place where they got in, whatever route they took, and if parents paid ton of money, better for the rest of us, keep this economy going.</p>

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<p>I saw the essay written by the son of a friend of mine. It sounded just like his Mom, not a 17 year old boy. He got into Princeton, but didn’t do very well there and in fact still is stuck on the requirement to write his final thesis.</p>

<p>My kids worked on their essays - it was an unfamiliar form for them, and my younger son knew that they would have to make up for weaknesses in other parts of the application that couldn’t be changed. He’s the king of procrastination, but still writes well when he puts his mind to it. Today he sent me a paper where he had two versions of the final paragraph and asked which one I liked better. My son isn’t going to med school - writing will be his life and he needs to do it well.</p>

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<p>Another concern is something that I just read in an article about Duke and think it will put more pressure for consultants.</p>

<p>"The admissions office has revised its process for admittance, allowing officers to focus more on certain applications. During this year’s early and regular admissions cycles, regional admissions officers could recommend that an applicant be rejected without further review, Guttentag said. In the past, every application had to be read by two readers and reviewed by either a senior officer or an admissions committee. This new change streamlined our review process at the front end,” Guttentag said. “This way, we can review applications that need more time to fully understand, without feeling pressured to make a decision.”</p>

<p>@mathmom
“He got into Princeton, but didn’t do very well there and in fact still is stuck on the requirement to write his final thesis.”</p>

<p>But he will finish at some point and the only thing visible in his resume will be the Princeton BA. That’s what matters for many people. As long as you put your foot in the door.</p>

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<p>Who writes them? Usually the kid starts out with some premise and writes an essay of sorts. At some schools, essay writing becomes part of the English comp course junior year, so that there are drafts of the essays. Sometimes the English teacher or guidance counselor will suggest topics. That summer, some kids take essay writing courses; they are available in a lot of places including right on the campuses of some of these colleges where the admissions officer say they don’t want over polished essays. Then, everyone gets a crack at the essays, correcting, changing, suggesting, rewording, editiing. But usually, the kid wrote some semblence of the first draftt.</p>

<p>Of course there are the cases where mom or dad or a good writer of a sibling will actually write the essay or more ominously a hired writer, but in all but a few cases, the kid did have something to do with the essay. It’s just that by the time it is in final form, it’s been polished so you can see the shine before reading it. </p>

<p>Of the several cases where the mom admitted writing the whole thing, other than in one case, I didn’t begrudge those moms one bit. They had difficult kids that couldn’t write much and I don’t even know if their schools looked at the essays. Those moms put together the whole danged applications so their kids would not be on the sofa all day after high school., whch they still end up being. The jury is still out.</p>

<p>If you add up how many admission people are working, then get the number of applications that need to be reviewed and essays read, you can get some idea how much time each app is under any kind of “scrutiny”. It;s rare that an essay gets too much attention, and in the case of some of my kids, it’s a good thing too.</p>