College Determining "Need"

<p>I've read quite a few threads regarding financial aid and FAFSA and I haven't found the answer to this question. I hope I'm not starting a new thread unnecessarily! If so, my apologies.</p>

<p>I just completed the FAFSA and immediately received our EFC which is about half the cost of attendance for the college my daughter will be attending in the fall. I went to the college board and found these statistics which I copy and pasted:</p>

<p>Full-time freshman enrollment: 1,386
Number who applied for need-based aid: 814
Number who were judged to have need: 393
Number who were offered aid: 393
Number who had full need met: 168</p>

<p>My question is this...According to the above statistics 814 students applied for need-based aid and only 393 were judged to have need. Can the college decide that you can afford to pay full tuition even if the FAFSA estimates that you cannot? We were very excited when we got our EFC because we were comfortable with the estimate they provided. Now, we're worried agan!</p>

<p>The FAFSA EFC actually means very little. Each school uses the data and decides based on their own formula and resources. </p>

<p>A couple of points. Many students apply for aid knowing that they will not receive it. The do that because some schools require FAFSA to be eligible for merit scholarships and because you need to file the FAFSA to take out non-subsidized Stafford loans. </p>

<p>The other thing is that the stats you provided indicate your school does not meet full need in a large percentage of cases. So even of they agree with the FAFSA EFC they may not fully fund the between the cost and your EFC.</p>

<p>Your efc is not the minimum that you’ll pay. Most schools can’t meet aid. Also often aid is big loans.</p>

<p>So, let’s say that cost of attendance is around 22,000 and our EFC is 11,000, we would likely be expected to pay the full 22,000 per year regardless of what the FAFSA indicates or perhaps pay 11,000 and then take out a loan for the remaining 11,000? That would leave us with $44,000 loan at the end of four years. One statistic I left out was the average loan at the end of four years for this school is $12,000. Then what happens if you can’t get the loans? Does that ever happen? My husband and I are working folks with four children and we basically live paycheck to paycheck. I can’t imagine that anyone would give us a loan for $11,000! We don’t have equity, nor do we have any liquid assets!</p>

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<p>Not quite. However, you need to know how a college treats the FAFSA. The statistics described by the OP really have no bearing on this. What you want to find is how much of the family need does the school typically meet, and what is the distribution of aid the school gives (split between grants/scholarships and work-study/loans). This information is at collegeboard under the financial section of the school profiles.</p>

<p>Your child will likely be given a stafford loan that she will be responsible for. Also some work study.</p>

<p>Okay, so I copied the rest of the page from college board:</p>

<p>Average percent of need met: 82%
Average financial aid package: $13,454
Average need-based loan: $2,690
Average need-based scholarship or grant award: $13,088
Average non-need based aid: $7,396
Average indebtedness at graduation: $12,859
EFC Calculator
Compare Your Aid Awards
Financial Aid Distribution
Percent of total undergraduate aid awarded as:
Scholarships / grants: 57%
Loans / jobs: 43%
Non-need-based aid
determined by:
Academics
Athletics
Leadership
ROTC </p>

<p>However, is any of this relevant if the school decides that you don’t qualify for the aid? This was my original question and again forgive me if I’m missing something here. It doesn’t matter how they break it down if you don’t qualify for aid according to them.</p>

<p>In other words, aren’t these statistics based on the 393 out of the 814 who applied that this school judged to “have need”?</p>

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<p>Ultimately, if you don’t qualify, the numbers are meaningless to you. BUT…</p>

<p>1) The number that has some relevance is % of meed met. It is an indirect measure of how likely students with minimal need are likely to be found in need.</p>

<p>2) College is a 4 year proposition (hopefully). It may not be relevant in year 1, but it just might in future years.</p>

<p>Averages don’t really tell you much. They include those that get free fed aid and such. Is this an in state public, an oos public, or private.</p>

<p>Yes. It often happens where parents can’t borrow for future years. Can you pay your efc without borrowing. This school has its own funds…right? What school is it?</p>

<p>College of William and Mary, which is in state for us. The kids have 529 college funds that will pay the EFC. We had hoped that there would be enough to cover full tuition, but the 529 plans were hit hard by the stock market. There is enough in the funds to cover our EFC. This is why we were so excited when we saw the EFC, because it happened to be what we have on hand.</p>

<p>Hi Terig.</p>

<p>The way need is typically determined is by subtracting the EFC from the cost of attendance. That is your “need”.</p>

<p>However (it’s never that simple, is it! ;)) – the colleges have various ways of determining what you can reasonably contribute. Some use the FAFSA EFC, some use the CSS Profile or have their own additional financial aid application forms, and based on the information they collect, and on their own institutional policies as to how to use that information in determining the amount they’ll expect you to pay, they will come up with a figure. (“EFC” is really only a FAFSA number that determine how much, if any, federal aid you may qualify for.)</p>

<p>Once the college figures out what you can pay (according to them), then they may or may not meet that “need”. It sounds like at this college they meet that need for some students fully and for some they meet it partially. The packages they award are going to be structured based on their own methodology, and honestly there really isn’t a way for you to know exactly what kind of an aid award you might get until they send it to you. You just need to wait and see.</p>

<p>If they meet your need partially, you could end up with an aid award that is part grants/scholarships, part loans, and part student earnings (work study usually) – and still have a gap left over. This gap is money (above what they already determined to be your contribution) that you will need to figure out a way to cover.</p>

<p>If they meet your need fully, then it still would likely be a package of grants, loans, and student earnings, but without the gap. The proportion of grants to loans is important.</p>

<p>If your student could graduate with the college’s average 12K in loans, that’s pretty good as far as borrowing for college goes.</p>

<p>Make sure to find out their policies on awards for subsequent years. You’ll want to know that if you can swing freshman year, that the aid will not change substantially (assuming your income and assets does not change substantially) in future years.</p>

<p>OP - the bottom line is that W&M does not guarantee to meet full need and 50% of the students that are determined to have need are gapped. You will need to make up the difference if that happens. And the award will no doubt include a substantial amount of loans. </p>

<p>W&M does recalculate the EFC using their own methodology as well. My DS applied there a couple years ago.</p>

<p>I would think that W&M meets need for in-state students. The stats above include oos and int’ls.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your feedback. Two more questions…do you happen to know if the schools send out financial packages in bulk after regular decisions have been processed or if they do them as they come in? This may vary from school to school. Secondly, I tried to search “best schools for financial aid” on CC and I couldn’t find anything. Since you all have been on CC for a while I wondered if you have seen a list. My daughter is set, but my second child is a current junior so I want to educate myself. The college counselors at my kid’s schools (they attend different private high schools) gave me great lists, but I’m sure there is a bigger list out there somewhere. Independent High Schools tend to have their “favorites colleges”, so I’m sure my list is very limited.</p>

<p>The kids have 529 college funds that will pay the EFC. We had hoped that there would be enough to cover full tuition, but the 529 plans were hit hard by the stock market. There is enough in the funds to cover our EFC [currently $11k]. This is why we were so excited when we saw the EFC, because it happened to be what we have on hand.</p>

<p>If your second child is considering going OOS, then keep these things in mind…</p>

<p>OOS publics (except UNC & UVa) do not really help OOS students - most OOS publics can’t meet the needs of their in-state students, much less the OOS ones. </p>

<p>Some OOS publics give generous merit scholarships to OOS students with high stats.</p>

<p>Most privates do not meet need. Most put big loans or gaps in their FA packages. The exceptions are the elites. Some lower ranked privates will give big merit to high stats kids, but if the cost is $55k per year, a $25k merit might still leave you with loans (which you say aren’t affordable). </p>

<p>Since you have 4 kids to put thru college, obviously you can’t take out loans for one kid’s education, which would handicap you for the others. You might have to have a policy that the parents won’t take out any loans - which would be understandable since you have 4 kids.</p>

<p>Don’t look at things like averages of FA awards and such…they don’t tell you the whole story…they can be very misleading. One child may get $40k in FA (because of high need/high stats), and another might only get $5500. Yet the “average” will be high.</p>

<p>What are the likely stats of your younger child? Would she like going to UVa? </p>

<p>What is her likely major/career? What kind of schools does she like?</p>

<p>Thanks so much, mom2collegekids! Lots of great feedback. 4 kids to send to college and the first two are a year apart. The good news is that the college fund hit the hardest was #1 and she is going public in state, so I’m thinking no loans will be necessary. I guess we’ll see soon! #2 is not as strong of a student – I’m sure he will not be receiving any merit aid nor will he be going to UVA or W&M. He is a solid B student. He does have a lot of ec’s and I think that a private school would appreciate that he has strong character and good leadership, so we are thinking that he might end up at a private school. He has been #1 on his tennis team every year (again, small private school so he won’t be recruited for sports), cross country captain, swim team and he works during the summer as an asst. tennis pro. He also is very involved with a youth mentoring program – lots of volunteer awards. Of course, we think he’s great, but I’m sure public schools would not look past his average grades and less than average SAT scores to see what an outstanding young man he is! He was going to look OOS, but thanks to your feedback, we’ll keep him in state. His college counselor offered us a list of privates with good aid in the mid-atlantic area (Roanoke College, Webster, Gettysburg, Dickinson, Lynchburg maybe–I don’t have his list close by). Virginia is a tough state for average students! He would like a school where he could play sports (division 3 or club) and he’s interested in perhaps international studies, history and has entertained aviation (this one is very limiting). #3 child is only 11, so we have time for his and #4’s 529 plans to grow. We’ll think positively!!</p>

<p>*
I’m sure he will not be receiving any merit aid nor will he be going to UVA or W&M. He is a solid B student.</p>

<p>He does have a lot of ec’s and I think that a private school would appreciate that he has strong character and good leadership, so we are thinking that he might end up at a private school.*</p>

<p>While those qualities may get him admitted to an appreciative mid-tier private school, it won’t make the $50k+ cost affordable. </p>

<p>His stats aren’t high enough for the top privates that meet need. What good would it do if he’s accepted to pricey private, he’s given a bit of aid, but you’re handed a big bill. Can his college fund support paying out $35k per year or so?</p>

<p>IF his college fund is much stronger than D’s, then your EFC for him will be much higher.</p>

<p>I’m not saying that he shouldn’t apply to any privates, I’m saying that it could be a longshot that they will be affordable without big loans for his stats (so, I wouldn’t encourage him to think he’ll be going to a private college). </p>

<p>You need to visit some VA publics that are affordable, too. VA has a lot of very good publics.</p>

<p>VA does have a lot of great publics, however, most of them have increased their admissions standards! Most everyone wants to get into the same schools (UVA, W&M, Va Tech) and then when these great students don’t get in, they resort to their second choices (JMU, Mary Washington, Christopher Newport and even Radford). All of these schools have become very competitive! ODU, VCU and George Mason are much too big, so what is left? Longwood University is a good size and we were supposed to go visit last weekend, but we were snowed in. Virginia Wesleyan perhaps. </p>

<p>I do find one thing very interesting. I’ve received 3 different private messages from parents who found that the financial aid packages they have received from private schools (I would think they would be considered mid-tier, but I’m not sure) were much better than the state schools’ packages. With that said, I’m also assuming that their kids’ stats are probably higher than my son’s because most everyone on CC has unbelievably high stats! Another case in point…a girl who attends the private high school that my daughter attends is at Roanoke College this year as a freshman. Her parents did not have to take out any loans for her to attend (although the student did take out the Stafford – very minimal). She was not a strong student at all – great ec’s, but a very average B/C student. She received a beautiful financial aid package. I think their must be other schools out there like this one(the two other ones I’m referring to are University of Richmond and Franklin & Marshall).</p>