Wondering if in addition to general demographic changes in the U.S. if less interest by foreign students is playing into this at all. It’s not a huge percentage, but it’s always been an important group for enrollment managers.
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Why does the college offer such a major in the first place? Because of academic value? Some of them don’t seem to have that either.
ROI is an inappropriate measure for this decision process. The question is what attains the highest level of satisfaction (utility). For some, it may be studying at subject that others think is worthless. But for that person it may bring lifelong joy. Another important thing to remember is that these decisions are made under uncertainty. So, everything may not happen as planned.
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Some of the “studies” professors were upset that Princeton just offers courses and a minor in one of the “studies” areas, and not a full major, for example. If none of these majors are offered, I am sure that is a serious PR problem for the university. Significant pressure will be brought to bear.
I would love to see a mobility analysis which tracks outcomes and correlates it to the young person’s willingness (and ability) to move where the jobs are.
“Studies” majors get a bad rap on CC. But you can launch- successfully- with a wide variety of “studies” majors. But no guarantees that the good job will be in DC- in might be Dayton, Ohio or Des Moines.
And even the “bullet proof” majors- mobility is extremely important in the early years.
There are many careers where top employers are mostly indifferent to major. They are looking for evidence of critical thinking, strong writing skills, ability to understand numbers, and excellent communication skills. So Renaissance Studies- a great major, but you aren’t walking into a “first rung on the ladder” job at an insurance company or hotel company without at least taking statistics and having base level computer skills.
I’ve hired new grads into real estate management/facilities management roles for a big company, and those hiring managers did not want degrees in real estate or similar. They wanted big picture thinking. They wanted problem-solving. They wanted people who could read a 350 page report and write an 8 page executive summary, or people who could take a lackluster presentation (“progress on environmental remediation for our 15 suspended development sites”) and turn it into a four page set of talking points for a Congressional hearing which could move the needle on the regulatory process.
Don’t dump on studies majors. Many of them have strong and versatile skillsets. But they’ll need to make sure their transcript and resume reflect those skillsets.
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GE (RIP) was famous for needing to move to advance within the company.
And this is how you get a $1.6 T student loan debt problem.
Correct, by teaching people how to analyze decisions incorrectly.
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To which ROI is a relevant factor in the decision process.
That wouldn’t be a good answer in even an elementary economics class.
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There is lots of evidence (I don’t have time to hunt for the stats) that a major driver of the student debt loan problem is for-profit colleges (those students are getting degrees in Court Reporting and Travel and Tourism, not Renaissance Studies or Asian Studies) AND graduate degrees (in a wide range of often pre-professional subjects, many of which do not require a grad degree).
So there’s a lot of ignorance going on with borrowers but not sure that an ROI analysis is going to help. Someone who works for me has a kid getting a BA in “Court Reporting” and then plans a grad degree in Criminal Justice. I cannot tell you how many experienced and senior recruiting folks (many who have worked in legal recruiting, have worked in HR in Law Enforcement) have explained what a terrible plan this is. The kids logic is that the CJ Masters is only two years, so less debt than law school…
Ugh. Logic isn’t working. Introducing the kid to people who work in the court system and in criminal justice hasn’t worked. The family is super psyched that the kid is “so pre-professional” and isn’t going to end up with a “worthless” degree in English literature.
Would that were the case. There are LOTS of things you can do with a degree in English lit. There is exactly one thing you can do with a degree in Court Reporting, and it does not require a Bachelor’s degree, nor does it pay on the scale for folks with Bachelor’s degrees. That pre-professional ROI don’t look so good…
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Assume this is a ‘rich get richer’ situation? Like, T100 (whatever that means) probably aren’t seeing this right?
Upthread, it was mentioned that less selective private colleges are having the most trouble with declining enrollment, while the most prestigious colleges and public flagships are not having as much trouble.
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Oh sorry. I skimmed but missed that. Makes sense. Thanks.
Shouldn’t it be easy to tell if a degree or major has value? If it lacks rigor, if it doesn’t challenge you, if everyone who shows up graduates, it shouldn’t have much value.
Court reporters in the Dallas area start in the low $100k. The Texas median salary is $78k. For those who like very regular hours and stable routine, and possible part time options, it is not a bad choice. Plus income can be supplemented by working on depositions. It doesnt require a BA, but then many, many BA’s are employed in jobs that do not require a BA
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An example of a major that likely would never pass a ROI threshold but many people find highly desirable is Religion.
Huh?
Where did you got the idea that there is ANY major out there in which “everybody who shows up graduates”? I’ve been in and around academia for decades, in multiple colleges, and I have yet to find a single major which fits that description.
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Indeed, most NCRA approved court reporting programs are not bachelor’s degree programs: NCRA-Approved Court Reporting Programs | NCRA
I was going to chime in and say this also. Court reporting can be a lucrative career with a lot of flexibility and with no need for a BA. Starting court reporters at 100k plus are paid more than most starting lawyers. There is also the upside of being able to start your own business and build on that business to increase your revenue. I certainly wouldn’t discourage someone who was interested in it. Terrible pre law major though - English would be much better (lawyers write a LOT!)